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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2019 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by Ken7

then why did you say "we do KNOW' in another thread?


Read the other thread where I clarify what I meant by the word "know".
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2019 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Ken7

What is it you are calling evidence? All you have said is everything has to have a cause and then commit the logical fallacy of special pleading that you "god" is independent of the universe and thus did not need to be created but did not point to any evidence that that is in fact true.


It's a logical conclusion. If the cause of our universe (whatever it is) is independent of the laws of our universe, and our universe contains laws in it, then it is not necessary for the cause to be tied to the laws of our universe. There are two major reasons for this: a) the cause is independent of our laws (which must be the case since they came about due to the cause's creative acts and so therefore had a beginning and therefore likely did not exist prior to their beginning alongside their Cause), and b) while we don't know the laws of existence prior to the universe's creation (if there were even any), we don't know if the cause-and-effect laws are the same as they are now prior to the creation of our universe. This means that not only is there a first cause, but we can also attribute to it/him an eternal existence without violating any laws of reason or logic.

Indeed, some of the prevailing theories of the universe's origins argue for the existence of eternal phenomena (something you yourself almost alluded to in a previous post).

So we're back at the basics for you: You've yet to admit that the universe had a beginning, and you've yet to come to the conclusion that the cause of the universe need not follow the laws of our universe.

Maybe this subject is too much for you, I don't know.

Edited by Magister - 27 January 2019 at 1:33pm
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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