Hall of FameHall of Fame  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp  chatChat
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
InterReligious Dialogue
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : InterReligious Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Common arguments for existence of a God Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 2
Author Message
Win-Win  
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 131
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Win-Win Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 11:35am
I don't think this thread is about Quatum Physics, Rock

Cause and Effect is all around us, and we can witness it each moment


No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4521
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 11:41am
But it is an illusion is my point. Cause and effect is observable only in very controlled environments.

The "butterfly effect" is a counter argument to this.
a wing flap of a butterfly may cause a tornado across the country 3 weeks later.

As humans, we are acutely aware of the uncertainty of life and so we pray to God often because we understand that life is massively uncertain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4521
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 11:44am
The scientific argument put forward by islamists is a direct appeal to a system that has been understood to be vastly superior to their own beliefs.

To retain islam in the face of scientific development islamists have attempted to align islam with science.

I think this is folly for muslims to engage with.

Because the western mind is uninterested in the scientific propositions of a 7th century arab.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Win-Win  
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 131
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Win-Win Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 12:16pm
Check Prof. Roger Penrose, Rock


No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4521
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 1:04pm
I dont need to. 99.99% of the scientific world doesnt believe that God explains the world.

Really, an informed western mind is unimpressed with the idea that religion and science have to be compatible.

They are simply not. Thats the fact.

If the middle east wasnt so in awe of western science, you wouldnt bother trying to make it compatible either.

But since western scientific achievements allowed the west to overcome and colonize the muslim world, you are in awe of it.

Please stop, you are wasting your time talking to us about religion and science.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Magister
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 5221
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

Win-Win that is a construct to explain the cause and effect nature of the world.

However, at the quantum level cause and effect dont really operate.

Chaos and probabilities define it.

The certainty that you are alluding to is an illusion.


That's not entirely true, Rock. At the quantum level, things APPEAR to be random, but only because we are not well versed in the laws governing them. Why electrons seem to "randomly" disappear and just appear out of nowhere, etc. are all being studied, but cause and effect still operate. We just don't always know those causes.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Magister
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 5221
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

But it is an illusion is my point. Cause and effect is observable only in very controlled environments.

The "butterfly effect" is a counter argument to this.
a wing flap of a butterfly may cause a tornado across the country 3 weeks later.

As humans, we are acutely aware of the uncertainty of life and so we pray to God often because we understand that life is massively uncertain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect


The butterfly argument is more about domino effects than about dispelling the notion of cause and effect.

Uncertainty is a given, I agree with you there, but there are causes and effects - indeed, nothing ever happened that we know of which did not have an underlying cause.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Magister
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 5221
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

The scientific argument put forward by islamists is a direct appeal to a system that has been understood to be vastly superior to their own beliefs.

To retain islam in the face of scientific development islamists have attempted to align islam with science.

I think this is folly for muslims to engage with.

Because the western mind is uninterested in the scientific propositions of a 7th century arab.


Science is a method of learning about the universe. Islam is a spiritual system based on worshiping the Creator. They are two different things entirely. Unlike Christianity which is in a constant struggle against science, Islam is not. Islam promotes science and learning. The Quran commands us to ask those with knowledge. The Quran rebukes those who don't use their intellects.

And for a Muslim, science helps Muslims better understand some of the messages Islam gives us, and Islam helps us better understand some of the things science discovers. It's like having a job and a car. They're both different, yet they work together: You use your car to get to your job, and you use the money from your job to keep and maintain your car. One deals with travel, and the other deals with income. Islam and science, likewise, mutually coexist on friendly (if not symbiotic) terms. Islam is about the spiritual realm, matters relating to what it means to be a human being, while science relates to the mundane aspects of life.

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Magister
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 5221
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2019 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by The Rock


I dont need to. 99.99% of the scientific world doesnt believe that God explains the world.


This is an interesting argument, given that majority of scientists in the world believe in God.

It's also interesting given that majority of US physicians believe in God (and most even believe that God plays a role in medical science).

So majority of the leaders in science (PhDs, MDs, DOs, etc.) believe in God, but you're saying 99.99% of the scientific world doesn't believe He explains the world. That's an interesting claim. Is this just your personal speculation, or do you have sources to back you up?

http://news.rice.edu/2015/12/03/first-worldwide-survey-of-religion-and-science-no-not-all-scientists-are-atheists/

https://phys.org/news/2015-12-worldwide-survey-religion-science-scientists.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16050858

Originally posted by The Rock


Really, an informed western mind is unimpressed with the idea that religion and science have to be compatible.


In my experience, I've found the average Westerner to be a poser - they act as though they're informed, but they're just as clueless about the world as anyone else. Remember, acting and being are not one and the same.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 2
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.03
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.