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Munawar  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Munawar Replybullet Topic: The "Kill" Verses in the Quran
    Posted: 03 June 2005 at 11:38am
This keeps coming up, so I want to answer it once and for all. For the people who feel that the Quran is full of verses that call for the killing of all Non-Musims, please post them here. We will explain these verses in context, and background.

My statement is this: Islam does not allow the killing of any man, except for justice, in defence or for a just cause.

Munawar
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David
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote David Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2005 at 2:44pm

Munawar: Sounds like this may have the making of a good post.  Could you please expand on the following:  1)except for justice 2) for a just cause?  I'm especially interested in knowing how just cause is defined in Islam.  Thanks. 

 

In Christ, David.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2005 at 2:47pm

David, put the verses here and Munawar (or someone else) will explain the justice or good cause mentioned.

Good thread, Munawar!

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David
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote David Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2005 at 3:05pm

I don't have my Qur'an yet.  I have ordered one, but it's not here.  I have no verses to include with my post.  Can't the concept be explained? 

In Christ, David.
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Naadir Muhammed  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Naadir Muhammed Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2005 at 3:35pm

Misquoted Verse Same Verse in Context
[4:101] "... For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies." [4:101] When you travel, during war, you commit no error by shortening your Contact Prayers (Salat), if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you. Surely, the disbelievers are your ardent enemies.
[8:12-13] ... I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle. ...

[8:12-13] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger." This is what they have justly incurred by fighting GOD and His messenger. For those who fight against GOD and His messenger, GOD's retribution is severe.

*8:12-16 All wars are governed by the basic rule in 60:8-9.

[9:5] "... fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ..." [9:4-5] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. ...

[9:14] "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame ..." [9:13-14] Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers. You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers.

As one can see as the verses are quoted indvidually and in context, one will see a different outcome.

There is only one death, so let it be in the path of Allah"

Shaykh 'Abdullah 'Azzam (RH)
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Munawar  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Munawar Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2005 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by David

1)except for justice


Hi David,

Justice is when someone has wronged another or the government. Then there must be punishment/retribution/purification.

If one man kills another for no reason, then he is killed in turn. This is death by justice.

Originally posted by David

2)for a just cause?


If the Muslim government finds there is extensive good in killing someone for the greater good of society, then this a just cause.

Just cause requires a government, and extensive deliberation. It is not an easy principle to apply, nor one used very often. I included it for the sake of completeness.

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onestop
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote onestop Replybullet Posted: 04 June 2005 at 8:39am

PK, where are you PK, now that this thread is open, please put something here. But i suggest we do it one at a time and explain it  slowly so that we can explain them as clearly as possible, step by step. (i mean they, not we.)   

Please don't display 100 or 1000 verses in one shot!! we are only human too! (again they, not we.)

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Pastor Marty  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Pastor Marty Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 2:43am

4:88-91

Allah misguides the unbelievers, so don't bother trying to convert them.

88 What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O Muhammad) canst not find a road.

Don't have any unbeliever friends. Better yet slaughter them, unless they are living with your allies (other Muslims breaking this rule?).

89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, 90 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

If you find people who don't belong to any particular group, kill them unless they first offer peace or submit, because they most likely hate you. 

91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

2 Chronicles 15:13 Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
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Nabil  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Nabil Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 3:53am
As-salamu'alaykum,

.... and we look to the example of the life of the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) to learn how to properly carry out the commands Qur'an.

wassalam,

Nabil.....

"And who is more astray than one who invokes besides Allah, such as will not answer him on the Day of Judgment, and who (in fact) are unconscious of their call (to them)"? (Quran46:5)


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Proud Kafir
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Proud Kafir Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 8:55am

Originally posted by Nabil

As-salamu'alaykum,

.... and we look to the example of the life of the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) to learn how to properly carry out the commands Qur'an.

wassalam,

Nabil.....

Please don't follow your prophet. It is better to not follow him.



Edited by Proud Kafir
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jesus-follower
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jesus-follower Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 9:18am

The Security of Life and Property

In the address which the Prophet delivered on the occasion of the Farewell Hajj, he said: "Your lives and properties are forbidden to one another till you meet your Lord on the Day of Resurrection." God Almighty has laid down in the Holy Quran: "Anyone who kills a believer deliberately will receive as his reward (a sentence) to live in Hell for ever. God will be angry with him and curse him, and prepare dreadful torment for him" (4:93). The Prophet has also said about the dhimmis (the non-Muslim citizens of the Muslim State): "One who kills a man under covenant (i.e. a dhimmi) will not even smell the fragrance of Paradise" (al-Bukhari and Abu Dawud). Islam prohibits homicide but allows only one exception, that the killing is done in the due process of law which the Quran refers to as bi al-haqq (with the truth). Therefore a man can be killed only when the law demands it, and it is obvious that only a court of law can decide whether the execution is being carried out with justice or without justification. In case of war or insurrection a just and righteous government alone, which follows the Shari'ah or the Islamic Law, can decide whether a war is just or unjust, whether taking of a life is justified or not; and whether a person is a rebel or not and who can be sentenced to death as a punishment. These weighty decisions cannot be left in the hands of a court which has become heedless to God and is under the influence of the administra- tion. A judiciary like this may miscarry justice. Nor can the crimes of state be justified on the authority of the Holy Quran or Traditions (hadith) when the state murders its citizens openly and secretly without any hesitation or on the slightest pretext, because they are opposed to its unjust policies and actions or criticize it for its misdeed, and also provides protection to its hired assassins who have been guilty of the heinous crime of murder of an innocent person resulting in the fact, that neither the police take any action against such criminals nor can any proof or witnesses against these criminals be produced in the courts of law. The very existence of such a government is a crime and none of the killings carried out by them can be called "execution for the sake of justice" in the phraseology of the Holy Quran.

Along with security of life, Islam has with equal clarity and definiteness conferred the right of security of ownership of property, as mentioned earlier with reference to the address of the Farewell Hajj. On the other hand, the Holy Quran goes so far as to declare that the taking of people's possessions or property is completely prohibited unless they are acquired by lawful means as permitted in the Laws of God. The Law of God categorically declares "Do not devour one another's wealth by false and illegal means" (2:188).

 

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sisterjay  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote sisterjay Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 5:32pm

Assalamu alaikum,

 I just want to say as one Muslim to another: THANK YOU  bro. Munawar for starting this thread. I really like that someone decided to start this topic and dispel the myth that the Qur'an is all about war. This is so important. Thanks also Naadir Muhammed  for the post with all the ayats. May Allah reward you both.



Edited by sisterjay
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Munawar  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Munawar Replybullet Posted: 06 June 2005 at 2:56pm
Hello Marty,

Thanks for listing these verses. Here is the explanation for them:


Originally posted by Pastor Marty


4:88-91 Allah misguides the unbelievers, so don't bother trying to convert them.

88 What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O Muhammad) canst not find a road.


The verses states "when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned", the key words being "What they earned". Meaning they did such bad things, that Allah led them astray. There is nothing "evil" about these verses. Simply, "You reap what you sow".


Originally posted by Pastor Marty


Don't have any unbeliever friends. Better yet slaughter them, unless they are living with your allies (other Muslims breaking this rule?).

89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,


The verse was revealed about Muslims who left at the last minute before the Battle of Uhad. You can get more details here:

http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11879

Basically - it is speaking of treacherous Muslims. And how to differentiate between the good and the bad. This is not an open call to kill everyone.

Information:
1. The disbelievers want you to be evil like them
2. Don't be friends with them, until they prove they are "good Muslims" by emigrating in the name of Allah
3. If they turn back (leave Islam) then kill them.





Originally posted by Pastor Marty


If you find people who don't belong to any particular group, kill them unless they first offer peace or submit, because they most likely hate you.

91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.


A better translation:

"Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. "

1. There are people that will pay lip service, but whenever they are offered money they will turn against you. If they do not leave your land, or give you a peace treaty, then kill them, because they are treacherous.

This is not kill everyone. Only against those that are trecherous.

Edited by Munawar
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Preacher
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Preacher Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2005 at 7:56pm

Contents removed (post removed) per advise of Munawar (Admin Group). Perhaps confronting the falsifier/accuser is not the policy of this forum.

Preacher



Edited by Preacher
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