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101 Clear Contradictions of the Bible

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Topic: 101 Clear Contradictions of the Bible
Posted By: The_truth
Subject: 101 Clear Contradictions of the Bible
Date Posted: 22 December 2008 at 9:38pm

 

  Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

  In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

  How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a)  Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

  God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

  How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a)  Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

  How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

(b)  Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a)  Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

(b)  Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

  When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b)  Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

  How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

  When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a)  One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

   How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

(b)  Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

  In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha,   King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year  (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

  How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

  Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? 

(a)  Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

  How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

  How many were the children of Azgad?

(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

  How many were the children of Adin?

(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

  How many were the children of Hashum?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

  How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

  Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

(a) 29,818 (Ezra)

(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)

  How many singers accompanied the assembly?

(a)  Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

  What was the name of King Abijah’s mother?

(a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)

(b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

  Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

(b)  No (Joshua 15:63)

  Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)

  Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

  Who was the father of Shealtiel?

(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)

(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)

  Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

(a) Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)

(b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

  Who was the father of Uzziah?

(a)   Joram (Matthew 1:8)

(b)  Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

  Who as the father of Jechoniah?

(a)   Josiah (Matthew 1:11)

(b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

  How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)

(b)  But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

  Who was the father of Shelah?

(a)  Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)

(b)  Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

  Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

(a)  Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

(b)  No(John 1:19-21)

  Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?

(a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)

(b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

  Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

(a)  One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). “And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.”

(b)  Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). “They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.”

  How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

(a)  By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

(b)  His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

  Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)

(b)  On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

  When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

(a)  Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

(b)  No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

  Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

(a)  Yes(Mark6:8)

(b)  No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

  Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

(b)  No (Luke 9:9)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)

(b)  No (John 1:32,33)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

(a)   Yes (John 1:32, 33)

(b)  No (Matthew 11:2)

  According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

(a)   “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

(b)  “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)

  When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 21:12)

(b)  No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17).

  The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

(a)   Yes. (Matthew 21:19)

(b)    No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)

  Did Judas kiss Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

(b)  No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

  What did Jesus say about Peter’s denial?

(a)   “The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times” (John 13:38).

(b)  “Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times” (Mark 14:30) . When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

  Did Jesus bear his own cross?

(a)   Yes (John 19:17)

(b)  No (Matthew 27:31-32)

  Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

(a)   Yes(Matthew27:50-5 1;MarklS:37-38)

(b)  No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

  Did Jesus say anything secretly?

(a)   No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

(b)  Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

  Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

(a)   On the cross (Mark 15:23)

(b)  In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

  The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Mark 15:32)

(b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

  Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

(a)   Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43)

(b)  No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, “I have not yet ascended to the Father” (John 20:17)

  When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?

(a)  Yes(Acts9:7)

(b)  No(Acts22:9)

  When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:14)

(b) No (Acts 9:7)

  Did the voice spell out on the spot what Paul’s duties were to be?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:16-18)

(b)  No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)

  When the Israelites dwelt in ****tin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?

(a)  Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)

(b)  Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)

  How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?

(a)  Seventy souls (Genesis 4&27)

(b)  Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)

  What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?

(a)  He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)

(b)  He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)

  How did Judas die?

(a)  After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

(b)  After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

  Why is the field called “Field of Blood”?

(a)  Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)

(b)  Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)

  Who is a ransom for whom?

(a)  “The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). “Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... “(I Timothy 2:5-6)

(b)  “The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright” (Proverbs 21:18)

  Is the law of Moses useful?

(a)  Yes. “All scripture is... profitable...” (2 Timothy 3:16)

(b)  No. “. . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... “(Hebrews 7:18)

  What was the exact wording on the cross?

(a)  “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

(b)   “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

(c)   “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

(d)   “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

  Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

(a)  Yes (Matthew 14:5)

(b)  No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

  Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

(a)  Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

(b)  Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke’s gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

  Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collector’s office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?

(a)  Matthew (Matthew 9:9)

(b)  Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

  Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

(a)  After (Mark 14:12-17)

(b)  Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate’s judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

  Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

(a)  Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

(b)  No. (John 12:27)

  In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did ‘he move away from his disciples to pray?

(a)  Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)

(b)  One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)

  Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?

(a)  Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)

(b)  Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)

  What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

(a)   “Certainly this man was innocent” (Luke 23:47)

(b)  “Truly this man was the Son of God” (Mark 15:39)

  When Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? ” in what language did he speak?

(a)   Hebrew: the words are “Eloi, Eloi …..“(Matthew 27:46)

(b)  Aramaic: the words are “Eloi, Eloi ….. “(Mark   15:34)

  According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

(a)   “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” (Luke 23:46)

(b)  "It is finished" (John 19:30).

  When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 8:5)

(b)  No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)

(a)   Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

(b)  Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

 

(a)   God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

(b)  Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

  Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?

(a)   No (John 3:13)

(b)  Yes. “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11)

  Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?

(a)   Abiathar (Mark 2:26)

(b)  Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)

  Was Jesus’ body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

(a)   Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)

(b)  No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices “so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus)” (Mark 16: 1)

  When did the women buy the spices?

(a)   After “the Sabbath was past” (Mark 16:1)

(b)  Before the Sabbath. The women “prepared spices and ointments.” Then, “on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment” (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

  At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

(a)   “Toward the dawn” (Matthew 28: 1)

(b)  “When the sun had risen” (Mark 16:2)

  What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

(a)   To anoint Jesus’ body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)

(b)   To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)

(c)  For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

  A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?

(a)   They saw that the stone was “Rolled back” (Mark 16:4) They found the stone “rolled away from the tomb” (Luke 24:2) They saw that “the stone had been taken away from the tomb” (John 20:1)

(b)  As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

  Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus’ body?

(a)   Yes. “A young man in a white robe” (Mark 16:5). “Two men ... in dazzling apparel” later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)

(b) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him” (John 20:2)

  When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

(a)   Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)

(b)   On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus’ body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him “Teacher.” Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me...” (John 20:11 to 17)

  What was Jesus’ instruction for his disciples?

(a)  “Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me” (Matthew 2 8: 10)  

(b)   “Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17)

  When did the disciples return to Galilee?

(a)   Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee “some doubted” (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist

(b)   After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them “during forty days” (Acts 1:3), and “charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... “(Acts 1:4)

  To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?

(a)   “To the Ishmaelites” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh” (Genesis 37:36)

  Who brought Joseph to Egypt?

(a)   The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then “took Joseph to Egypt” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “The Midianites had sold him in Egypt” (Genesis 37:36)

(c)   Joseph said to his brothers “I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt” (Genesis 45:4)

  Does God change his mind?

(a)   Yes. “The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I repent that I have made Saul King...” (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

(b)   No. God “will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent” (I Samuel 15:29)

(c)   Yes. “And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel” (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. “The Lord was sorry that he made man” (Genesis 6:6)

“I am sorry that I have made them” (Genesis 6:7)

ii. “And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people” (Exodus 32:14).

iii. (Lots of other such references).

  The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the magicians did the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat:

(a)   Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21)

(b)   The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

  Who killed Goliath?

(a)   David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)

(b)   Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)

  Who killed Saul?

(a)  “Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)

(b)   An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)

  Does every man sin?

(a)   Yes. “There is no man who does not sin” (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)

(b)   No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. “Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). “We should be called children of God; and so we are” (I John 3: 1). “He who loves is born of God” (I John 4:7). “No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God” (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! “If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (I John 1:8)

 Who will bear whose burden?

(a)   “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2)

(b)   “Each man will have to bear his own load” (Galatians 6:5)

  How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?

(a)   Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)

(b)   Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)

  Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

(a)   After his baptism, “the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days ... (Mark 1:12-13)

(b)   Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee - two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)

  Was baby Jesus’ life threatened in Jerusalem?

(a)   Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 23)

(b)   No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)

  When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?

(a)   They worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God” (Matthew 14:33)

(b)   “They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52)



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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)



Replies:
Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 23 December 2008 at 7:56am

 

 Imaginative cut and paste. I wonder if i could find any similar sites showing contradictions in the Quran....

 Ohh my goodness  look there's plenty.. imagine that... and such a small book too!!!

   


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Janet Waters
Date Posted: 23 December 2008 at 1:48pm
Transfered from the thread "Did Cain marry his sister?"

Originally posted by keithnurse



So the story of Adam and Eve was written down by men who saw what happened in visions.  This is supposed to be compelling evidence that what Genesis said is an accurate account of what happened?  Doesn't sound like solid evidence to me at all.


Some prophets are given the "Gift of God" in order to also be a Seer and Revelator (translate unknown languages and know the beginning from the end).


Yes...originally the stories were received by visions as well as the retelling of earlier accounts written by other prophets (whether it was written in the same language or not).  However, most prophets (A SEER-for interpretations) had scribes that recorded these things down for them.  Whether the account of Genesis is the record that the scribe (or the prophet himself) wrote down or not....we don't know.  That record may be preserved with the Lord and the Genesis account may not have originated with a written account.  It may even be the oral traditions that were handed down from generation to generation of those who had access to those accounts at one time and then were written down later.  Obviously, every transaction would increase the possibility of errors (additions/subtractions/misinterpretations) in those accounts.

We can see from Moses' account (Genesis) that the wording he used about the creation and Adam and Eve story was almost identical to the wording in Abraham's account.  There are some doctrinal differences which must have come from the unintentional errors of the scribes (over time and through translations) as well as the intentional deletions of pertinent information by conspiring men.

Another thing to consider---the account of Genesis was not written in our language.  So someone had to translate it.  Scribes were not authorized to have carte blanch to the scriptures--they only had authority to be a human xerox machine--each making copies over the centuries.  They were not to add or subtract from the words of a prophet.  They were not to summarize, condense, or to translate from one language to another.  Only a prophet [SEER]......could translate one prophet's writings from one language to another....and this was done by the gift and power of God.  [Ancient translators: Urim & Thummim that the High Priest had possession of].

However, many men were "inspired" in their desire to translate the scriptures into languages to benefit all men.  But that doesn't mean that they had the ability to provide the perfect record.  In order to come up with a complete and perfect translation of ancient records....they have to be translated by the gift and power of God.  [Have the use of ancient interpreters that are designed for that purpose].  Many Seers were given visions through these interpreters too.

This is the difference between a prophet and a Seer.  Not all prophets are Seers.  But to be a Seer a man must be a prophet first.  A Seer is a prophet who has been given the interpreters.  He has been given the authority by God to accomplish translations (through the Melchizedek Priesthood).  No man can look into the interpreters and live without having the authority of God to do so.

The books within the Bible may at one time have been translated by the gift and power of God....but it has not come down to us in English....through this process.  Therefore there is going to be errors in our current addition of the Bible.  The more versions of the Bible being produced--- the greater errors in translations will continue to increase currently with us too.  Unless...................a prophet is called and given the gift and power of God [Urim & Thummim] to restore the Bible back to its pristine condition.


Posted By: Sagefrakrobatik
Date Posted: 23 December 2008 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 

 Imaginative cut and paste. I wonder if i could find any similar sites showing contradictions in the Quran....

 Ohh my goodness  look there's plenty.. imagine that... and such a small book too!!!

   
 
Thats exactly what I thought. I doubt this guy read the bible and went through it systematically looking for contradictions. It's so easy finding a list. the first time i saw a list of "contradictions" from the bible was from Dan Barker in his booking Loosing Faith; from Preacher to Atheist. To me it just shows you cant take everything literally. Besides are Muslims suppose to hold the "Injeel" in high esteem.


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Why eat vegetarians when you could eat meat eaters. They have more protein.


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 6:42am

[/QUOTE]

 
Thats exactly what I thought. I doubt this guy read the bible and went through it systematically looking for contradictions. It's so easy finding a list. the first time i saw a list of "contradictions" from the bible was from Dan Barker in his booking Loosing Faith; from Preacher to Atheist. To me it just shows you cant take everything literally. Besides are Muslims suppose to hold the "Injeel" in high esteem.
[/QUOTE]
 
Firstly these contradictions were listed by Christians themselves so it's not a bias posting! Secondly If linguists and Christian scholars themselves acknowlegde that the Bible is full of numerous additions, deletions,inconsistencies and contradictions then who are to to deny them? Thirdly of course we believe in the Injeel but we can't refer to it anymore because of the reasons i've just given you!
 
Does it never bother you that Jesus Himself told us to worship God.. yet the Church worships Him?

You see, when you do take out the "Jesus is God" part of the Bible.. people are willing to listen.. and not just Muslims.. Christians generally have been divided on this issue of whether Jesus is God. There's an Alpha course which had a lovely old man on it.. he was as strong a Christian as you would find in the church.. but he could not get his mind around Jesus is God.. yes to the crucifixion, but the concept of Jesus is God was something he couldn't accept

Can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God?


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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 6:45am
The Church has raised the worship of Jesus above the worship of God and Jesus Himself never did this.
 
In 2 Chronicles 7:14 God Himself declares

"If my people, who are called by my Name, humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, THEN will I hear from heaven, FORGIVE THEIR SIN and heal their land.

Jesus Himself when asked how to gain eternal life..did not tell the rich young man to believe that He Jesus was going to die on the cross for the sins of the world.. He simply told Him to go put His life right by obeying the commandments, especially the one giving him the most trouble.. His love of money and his possessions above all things.
Jesus said in John 17 "21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

If we take Jesus' words here to mean the same as in John 10 and we have to as the same words are used.. we are left with no alternative than to have to agree that Jesus is asking for the same one ness that exists between Him and God to exist between believers and God.

So are you now saying you are part of the God head? Clearly you are not..but that is the logical conclusion if you take the "one ness verses" at face value.

Notice also in John 17 Jesus says this
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom (You have sent.

Clearly Jesus does not identify Himself as being ONE with the only true God. Surely this is one place we would expect to see the Trinity doctrine discussed in detail by Him.

He says instead this..

4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.



7"Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;
8for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

No Muslim would suggest that God did not send Jesus .. and that God didnot give Jesus the words to be given to mankind.


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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Ganadores500
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 4:49pm
Imaginative cut and paste. I wonder if i could find any similar sites showing contradictions in the Quran....

 Ohh my goodness  look there's plenty.. imagine that... and such a small book too!!!

Right! It is misinterpretation of the scriptures. The gospels for example were written from memoria and it can not have every single accurate detail in all accounts...


Posted By: Ganadores500
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 5:13pm
"If my people, who are called by my Name, humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, THEN will I hear from heaven, FORGIVE THEIR SIN and heal their land.

This refers to Isreal turing away from their sins and worshipping God with a right heart in general, not the trinity...
 
So are you now saying you are part of the God head? Clearly you are not..but that is the logical conclusion if you take the "one ness verses" at face value.

Notice also in John 17 Jesus says this
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom (You have sent.

Jesus speaks to his believers concerning that they could be unified and know the true God. This is not reference to the disciples being gods themselves apart of the God Head. Read carefully, the context could throw a person off big time...

 

Clearly Jesus does not identify Himself as being ONE with the only true God. Surely this is one place we would expect to see the Trinity doctrine discussed in detail by Him.

He says instead this..

4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.

That's true God is interconected. (see Isaiah 48:16-17,Proverbs 30:4, 1 Timothy 3:16, Genesis 1:26, Isaiah 7:14, John 1:1-3, Isaiah 9:6,Mark 14:61-62, John 14:9,Psalsm 110:1, Phillipians 2:6,Colosian 2:9 Hebrews 1:1-3 and John 5:18(don't read into it)... these passages are too numerous to place down...

Jesus Himself when asked how to gain eternal life..did not tell the rich young man to believe that He Jesus was going to die on the cross for the sins of the world.. He simply told Him to go put His life right by obeying the commandments, especially the one giving him the most trouble.. His love of money and his possessions above all things.
Jesus said in John 17 "21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. If we take Jesus' words here to mean the same as in John 10 and we have to as the same words are used.. we are left with no alternative than to have to agree that Jesus is asking for the same one ness that exists between Him and God to exist between believers and God.

John 17 refers to the body of believers to be one and not broken down as a church, not being assembled w/ God in the God head.






Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 5:18pm
Firstly these contradictions were listed by Christians themselves so it's not a bias posting! Secondly If linguists and Christian scholars themselves acknowlegde that the Bible is full of numerous additions, deletions,inconsistencies and contradictions then who are to to deny them?
 
 Are you saying the Bible we have today has been drastically changed so much so that we Christians are now drawing from a source so removed from the original that we are believing in something completely different from that intended ?  If so, do you believe that the original teachings did not refer to Christ as God, or that the earliest Christians did not revere Christ as God, or God's Son ?
 I've heard it said many times that the Quran has never been changed, but this claim itself is open to question , even Islamic contemprories of the past have shed light on ommitted passages from the original Quran, such as the so called Satanic verses. There's a difference between what is a contradiction and what is clear attempt to corrupt scripture. If actual corruption was possible in scripture, then we probably wouldn't have learned of Peter denying Jesus three times, the offences of King David, the humiliation of the Hebrews by the Persians... I mean, why leave in the shameful episodes of the past if simple editing jobs were so easy and convenient, especially when  these shameful moments are not recorded eslewhere ?
 
Does it never bother you that Jesus Himself told us to worship God.. yet the Church worships Him?
 
 Does it ever occur to you that Christians get a little tired of hearing non -Christians attempt to prove what they believe in is wrong by using choice quotes in scripture, without context. 
 
You see, when you do take out the "Jesus is God" part of the Bible.. people are willing to listen.. and not just Muslims..
 
 I'm sure there may be some groups perhaps the Unitarians who do reflect on such a theology, so i guess some do listen to that as a theory. However it seems most people interested in the Bible are convinced that the Jesus of the Bible is infact God no-one's really caring who is or isn't listening .
 
 Christians generally have been divided on this issue of whether Jesus is God.
 
 They are... hmm, you have figures which show the disparity ? If i'm not mistaken the mainstream of Christianty, Catholic and most protestant denominations hold Jesus as God. What denominations don't ? Could you enlighten me ?
 
 
There's an Alpha course which had a lovely old man on it.. he was as strong a Christian as you would find in the church.. but he could not get his mind around Jesus is God.. yes to the crucifixion, but the concept of Jesus is God was something he couldn't accept

Can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God?
 
 Personaly i don't believe you can. But the reality is, the term Christian has since the reformation at least, become synonimous with  just about anyone who has the remotest abstract beliefs in the identity of Jesus. You have the ultra liberal type who view Jesus as no more than someone who spread nothing more than a feel good hippy vibe of peace and love and that nothing is sinful in regards to sexual orientation, free love etc.. then the pic'n'mix ones who have the Jesus they want in their own mind. There are some 30,000 Christian denominations out there which have over time become factionalised and splintered beyond number, they all claim to hold truth, but can they seriously all be Christian ?


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Damo808


Can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God?
 
 Personaly i don't believe you can. But the reality is, the term Christian has since the reformation at least, become synonimous with  just about anyone who has the remotest abstract beliefs in the identity of Jesus. You have the ultra liberal type who view Jesus as no more than someone who spread nothing more than a feel good hippy vibe of peace and love and that nothing is sinful in regards to sexual orientation, free love etc.. then the pic'n'mix ones who have the Jesus they want in their own mind. There are some 30,000 Christian denominations out there which have over time become factionalised and splintered beyond number, they all claim to hold truth, but can they seriously all be Christian ?
 
Please answer these questions:
 
Why did God have to kill himself for himself in order to save his own creation from a sin against him?
 
What was the result of David's prayer?.. He was forgiven.. ..he needed only a heart that was truly sorry and went to God for forgiveness!
 
David knew he had sinned and he knew how bad his sin..yet he still recognized that sin offerings were not enough.. what was and remains necessary was the heart attitude towards that sin and the sincere repentance from it.
 
This is what Christians call Holiness ( JC Ryle once wrote..

I ask to be heard today about this question. How stands the account between our souls and God? In this hurrying, bustling world, let us stand still for a few minutes and consider the matter of holiness... It is very well worth considering the question)


Hebrews 12 says
14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord....

and that is written to Christians..

the call from God in the OT was "Be Holy as I am Holy". Peter re stated this in the NT and the writer to Hebrews says it here

It is not sacrifice that saves you.. it's your heart attitude.. or your intention as we call it in Islam.. and Holiness is just as difficult a mark for the Christian to achieve as it is the Non Christian.. and without it you will not see God.

Hebrews 10 discusses this in detail.. and repeats the phrase that sacrifce was an annual reminder and sacrifice does not bring forgiveness for sin

it ends with these words as a warning to all Christians .. who believe that Jesus' death is enough to save them

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James said "Faith without works is dead" and Jesus said "not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom".

So there is a whole lot more to this than just accepting that Jesus's death was the final atonement for man's sins.
 
In 2 Chronicles 7:14 God Himself declares

"If my people, who are called by my Name, humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, THEN will I hear from heaven, FORGIVE THEIR SIN and heal their land.

Jesus Himself when asked how to gain eternal life..did not tell the rich young man to believe that He Jesus was going to die on the cross for the sins of the world.. He simply told Him to go put His life right by obeying the commandments, especially the one giving him the most trouble.. His love of money and his possessions above all things.
God is God Damo.. anything less than His ability to forgive sins and deal with sins makes Him less than Almighty. Why did He need sacrifice..and specially the sacrifice of Jesus to "become" sin.. in order to deal with man's sin?
 
Please don't give the pat answers about justification and atonement.. concentrate on WHO God is.. and ask yourself WHY!
 
 


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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 7:40pm
 
 
  You seem to be confusing forgiveness with purification. When David and the rest of the Patriarchs died, they didn't go to heaven as we know it, they were forgiven though still were tainted by sin regardless. But as the Bible would have it , they went instead to the "heart of the earth" (Mat 12:40) a somewhat midway sanctury if you will. Christians believe that Heaven only became opened to the dead after Christ's death on the Cross. One can only enter heaven after purification from the stain of sin.  Sacrifice was prescribed to the Hebrews to make them aware of the concept of sin, it did not however have the power to cleanse the stain of sin.
 


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 7:57pm
 Jesus "became sin". The phrasing here illustrates that Jesus put Himself , unblemished.. perfect as a substitute for sin, in order to free people from its burden or rather the inescapable burden it left upon the soul (pre-Crucifixion). I doubt the writter meant to convey that Jesus Himself became actual sin... thats just well... silly especially when taking with the rest of the passage. Unless you can explain the meaning differently ?

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 Jesus "became sin". The phrasing here illustrates that Jesus put Himself , unblemished.. perfect as a substitute for sin, in order to free people from its burden or rather the inescapable burden it left upon the soul (pre-Crucifixion). I doubt the writter meant to convey that Jesus Himself became actual sin... thats just well... silly especially when taking with the rest of the passage. Unless you can explain the meaning differently ?
Pls answer every point properly! thanks

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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 24 December 2008 at 8:45pm
 Well at least illustrate for me, whaich part of my last statement you dis-agree with and we'll start from there, for i can't see why it doen't summerize much all of what you said, in as many words, but just repetative in making the same points .... or at least ask me one at a time which points we can discuss at length . I'm in no way being evasive ?

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: keithnurse
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 11:13am
If the Bible has contradictions in it, and it DOES, then, it is NOT inerrant.  If Christians are going to say the Bible was written by an all-knowing, all-powerful deity, then I expect nothing short of absolute accuracy in every single detail in the Bible.  The Bible does not meet that standard.  It does contain contradictions so Christians should be honest and admit that.

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Unitarian Universalist
www.uua.org


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 2:37pm
Hi keith... I agree with you its just that some people imply deception is at the root.  

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Squeegie
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 8:48pm
Wonder of wonders-

I just found a website that lists 102 clear contradictions found in the quran!


Now the 64 cent question-

Does anyone have a clue why I might make that statement? Hint: I didn't find such a website, though I'm sure one exists, so I didn't say it for the sake of one-upsmanship.


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 10:37pm
Christian Scholars Recognize Contradictions in the Bible
 
“Then woe to those who write the book with their own hands and then say: ‘This is from God’, to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby.” (Quran 2:79)

“And when there came to them a messenger from God, Confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the book threw away the book of God behind their backs as if (it had been something) they did not know.”
(Quran 2:101)

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I (God) command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2)

Let us start from the beginning. No Biblical scholar on this earth will claim that the Bible was written by Jesus himself. They all agree that the Bible was written after the departure of Jesus peace be upon him by his followers. Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, a prestigious Christian evangelical mission, says:

“..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men….It is Human, Yet Divine,”

Another Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says:

“...Not so the New Testament...There is condensation and editing; there is choice reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the church behind the authors. They represent experience and history...”

“It is well known that the primitive Christian Gospel was initially transmitted by word of mouth and that this oral tradition resulted in variant reporting of word and deed. It is equally true that when the Christian record was committed to writing it continued to be the subject of verbal variation. Involuntary and intentional, at the hands of scribes and editors.”

“Yet, as a matter of fact, every book of the New Testament with the exception of the four great Epistles of St. Paul is at present more or less the subject of controversy, and interpolations are asserted even in these.”

Dr. Lobegott Friedrich Konstantin Von Tischendorf, one of the most adamant conservative Christian defenders of the Trinity was himself driven to admit that:

“[the New Testament had] in many passages undergone such serious modification of meaning as to leave us in painful uncertainty as to what the Apostles had actually written”

After listing many examples of contradictory statements in the Bible, Dr. Frederic Kenyon says:

“Besides the larger discrepancies, such as these, there is scarcely a verse in which there is not some variation of phrase in some copies [of the ancient manuscripts from which the Bible has been collected]. No one can say that these additions or omissions or alterations are matters of mere indifference”

Throughout this book you will find countless other similar quotations from some of Christendom’s leading scholars. Let us suffice with these for now.

Christians are, in general, good and decent people, and the stronger their convictions the more decent they are. This is attested to in the noble Quran:

“...and nearest among them (men) in love to the believers will you find those who say ‘we are Christians’: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. And when they listen to the revelation received by the messenger (Muhammad), you will see their eyes overflowing with tears for they recognize the truth: They pray: ‘Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.’” (Quran 5:82-83)

All biblical “versions” of the Bible prior to the revised version of 1881 were dependent upon the “Ancient Copies” (those dating between five to six hundred years after Jesus). The revisers of the Revised Standard Version (RSV) 1952 were the first biblical scholars to have access to the “MOST ancient copies” which date fully three to four hundred years after Christ. It is only logical for us to concur that the closer a document is to the source the more authentic it is. Let us see what is the opinion of Christendom with regard to the most revised version of the Bible (revised in 1952 and then again in 1971):

“The finest version which has been produced in the present century” - (Church of England newspaper)

“A completely fresh translation by scholars of the highest eminence” - (Times literary supplement)

“The well loved characteristics of the authorized version combined with a new accuracy of translation” - (Life and Work)

“The most accurate and close rendering of the original” - (The Times(

The publishers themselves (Collins) mention on page 10 of their notes:

“This Bible (RSV) is the product of thirty two scholars assisted by an advisory committee representing fifty cooperating denominations”

Let us see what these thirty two Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations have to say about the Authorized Version (AV), or as it is better known, the King James Version (KJV). In the preface of the RSV 1971 we find the following:

“...Yet the King James Version has GRAVE DEFECTS..”

They go on to caution us that:

“...That these defects are SO MANY AND SO SERIOUS as to call for revision”

The Jehovah’s Witnesses in their “AWAKE” Magazine dated 8th September 1957 published the following headline: “50,000 Errors in the Bible” wherein they say “..there are probably 50,000 errors in the Bible...errors which have crept into the Bible text...50,000 such serious errors...” After all of this, however, they go on to say: “...as a whole the Bible is accurate.” Let us have a look at only a very few of these errors.

In John 3:16 - AV(KJV) we read:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life..”

[…] this fabrication “begotten” has now been unceremoniously excised by these most eminent of Bible revisers. However, humanity did not have to wait 2000 years for this revelation.

In Maryam(19):88-98 of the noble Quran we read:

“And they say ‘God Most Compassionate has begotten a son!’ Indeed you have put forth a thing most monstrous! The skies are ready to burst (at such a claim), and the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin. That they should ascribe a son to the Most Compassionate. But it is not befitting [the majesty of] the Most Compassionate that He should beget a son. Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to the Most Compassionate as a servant. He has taken account of all of them and has numbered them all exactly. And every one of them will come to him singly on the day of judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will God most gracious bestow love. Verily, We have made this [Quran] easy in your tongue [O Muhammad] that you might deliver glad tidings to those who seek refuge [in God] and warn with it a people who are contentious. And how many a generation before them have we destroyed! Can you find a single one of them or hear from them so much as a whisper?”
In 1st Epistle of John 5:7 (King James Version) we find:

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.”

As we have already seen in section 1.2.2.5, this verse is the closest approximation to what the Church calls the holy Trinity. However, as seen in that section, this cornerstone of the Christian faith has also been s****ped from the RSV by the same thirty two Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations, once again all according to the “most ancient manuscripts.” And once again, we find that the noble Quran revealed this truth over fourteen hundred years ago:

“O people of the book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of God, and his Word, which he bestowed upon Mary, and a spirit preceding from him so believe in God and his messengers. Say not “Three” desist It will be better for you for God is one God Glory be to him Far exalted is he above having a son. To him belong all things in the heavens and the earth. And enough is God as a disposer of affairs.” (Quran 4:171)

Prior to 1952 all versions of the Bible made mention of one of the most miraculous events associated with the prophet Jesus peace be upon him, that of his ascension into heaven:

“So then the lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God” (Mark 16:19)

…and once again in Luke:

“While he blessed them, he parted from them, and was carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.” (Luke 24:51-52)

In the 1952 RSV Mark 16 ends at verse 8 and the rest is relegated in small print to a footnote (more on this later). Similarly, in the commentary on the verses of Luke 24, we are told in the footnotes of the NRSV Bible “Other ancient authorities lack “and was carried up into heaven’“ and “Other ancient authorities lack ‘and worshipped him.’” Thus, we see that the verse of Luke in it’s original form only said:

“While he blessed them, he parted from them. And they returned to Jerusalem with great joy.”

It took centuries of “inspired correction” to give us Luke 24:51-52 in their current form.

As another example, in Luke 24:1-7 we read:

“Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulcher, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spoke unto you when he was yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”

Once again, in reference to verse 5, the footnotes say: “Other ancient authorities lack ‘He is not here but has risen’”

The examples are far too numerous to list here, however, you are encouraged to obtain a copy of the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible for yourself and scan through the four gospels. You shall be hard pressed to find even two consecutive pages that do not contain the words “Other ancient authorities lack...” or “Other ancient authorities add...” etc.

We will note that every Gospel begins with the introduction “According to.....” such as “The Gospel according to Saint Matthew,” “The Gospel according to Saint Luke,” “The Gospel according to Saint Mark,” “The Gospel according to Saint John.” The obvious conclusion for the average man on the street is that these people are known to be the authors of the books attributed to them. This, however is not the case. Why? Because not one of the vaunted four thousand copies existent carries it’s author’s signature. It has just been assumed that they were the authors. Recent discoveries, however, refute this belief. Even the internal evidence proves that, for instance, Matthew did not write the Gospel attributed to him:

“...And as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (Jesus) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and HE (Jesus) saith unto HIM (Matthew), follow ME (Jesus) and HE (Matthew) arose, and followed HIM (Jesus).” (Matthew 9:9)

It does not take a rocket scientist to see that neither Jesus nor Matthew wrote this verse of “Matthew.” Such evidence can be found in many places throughout the New Testament. Although many people have hypothesized that it is possible that an author sometimes may write in the third person, still, in light of the rest of the evidence that we shall see throughout this book, there is simply too much evidence against this hypothesis.

This observation is by no means limited to the New Testament. There is even proof that at least parts of Deuteronomy were neither written by God nor by Moses. This can be seen in Deuteronomy 34:5-10 where we read:

“So Moses....DIED... and he (God Almighty) BURIED HIM (Moses)... He was 120 years old WHEN HE DIED... and there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses....”

Did Moses write his own obituary? Joshua also speaks in detail about his own death in Joshua 24:29-33. The evidence overwhelmingly supports the current recognition that most of the books of the Bible were not written by their supposed authors.

The authors of the RSV by Collins say that the author of “Kings” is “Unknown.” If they knew it to be the word of God they would have undoubtedly attributed it to him. Rather, they have chosen to honestly say “Author... Unknown.” But if the author is unknown then why attribute it to God? How can it then be claimed to have been “inspired”? Continuing, we read that the book of Isaiah is “Mainly credited to Isaiah. Parts may have been written by others.” Ecclesiastics: “Author. Doubtful, but commonly assigned to Solomon.” Ruth: “Author. Not definitely known, perhaps Samuel,” and on and on.

Let us have a slightly more detailed look at only one book of the New Testament:

“The author of the Book of Hebrews is unknown. Martin Luther suggested that Apollos was the author... Tertullian said that Hebrews was a letter of Barnabas... Adolf Harnack and J. Rendel Harris speculated that it was written by Priscilla (or Prisca). William Ramsey suggested that it was done by Philip. However, the traditional position is that the Apostle Paul wrote Hebrews... Eusebius believed that Paul wrote it, but Origen was not positive of Pauline authorship.”



Is this how we define “inspired by God”?

As seen in chapter one, St. Paul and his church after him, were responsible of making wholesale changes to the religion of Jesus (pbuh) after his departure and were further responsible for mounting a massive campaign of death and torture of all Christians who refused to renounce the teachings of the apostles in favor of the Pauline doctrines. All but the Gospels acceptable to the Pauline faith were then systematically destroyed or re-written. Rev. Charles Anderson Scott has the following to say:

“It is highly probable that not one of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) was in existence in the form which we have it, prior to the death of Paul. And were the documents to be taken in strict order of chronology, the Pauline Epistles would come before the synoptic Gospels.”

This statement is further confirmed by Prof. Brandon: “The earliest Christian writings that have been preserved for us are the letters of the apostle Paul”

In the latter part of the second century, Dionysius, Bishop of Corinth says:

“As the brethren desired me to write epistles (letters), I did so, and these the apostles of the devil have filled with tares (undesirable elements), exchanging some things and adding others, for whom there is a woe reserved. It is not therefore, a matter of wonder if some have also attempted to adulterate the sacred writings of the Lord, since they have attempted the same in other works that are not to be compared with these.”

The Quran confirms this with the words:

“Then woe to those who write the book (of Allah/God) with their own hands and then say: ‘This is from Allah’, to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby.” (Quran 2:79)

Victor Tununensis, a sixth century African Bishop related in his Chronicle (566 AD) that when Messala was consul at Costantinople (506 AD), he “censored and corrected” the Gentile Gospels written by persons considered illiterate by the Emperor Anastasius. The implication was that they were altered to conform to sixth century Christianity which differed from the Christianity of previous centuries.

These “corrections” were by no means confined to the first centuries after Christ. Sir Higgins says:

“It is impossible to deny that the Bendictine Monks of St. Maur, as far as Latin and Greek language went, were very learned and talented, as well as numerous body of men. In Cleland’s ‘Life of Lanfranc, Archbishop of Canterbury’, is the following passage: ‘Lanfranc, a Benedictine Monk, Archbishop of Canterbury, having found the Scriptures much corrupted by copyists, applied himself to correct them, as also the writings of the fathers, agreeably to the orthodox faith, secundum fidem orthodoxam.”

In other words, the Christian scriptures were re-written in order to conform to the doctrines of the eleventh and twelfth centuries, and even the writings of the early church fathers were “corrected” so that the changes would not be discovered. Sir Higgins goes on to say, “The same Protestant divine has this remarkable passage: ‘Impartiality exacts from me the confession, that the orthodox have in some places altered the Gospels’.”

The author then goes on to demonstrate how a massive effort was undertaken in Constantinople, Rome, Canterbury, and the Christian world in general in order to “correct” the Gospels and destroy all manuscripts before this period.

Theodore Zahan, illustrated the bitter conflicts within the established churches in Articles of the Apostolic Creed. He points out that the Roman Catholics accuse the Greek Orthodox Church of remodeling the text of the holy scriptures by additions and omissions with both good as well as evil intentions. The Greek Orthodox, on the other hand, accuse the Roman Catholics of straying in many places very far away from the original text. In spite of their differences, they both join forces to condemn the non-conformist Christians of deviating from “the true way” and condemn them as heretics. The heretics in turn condemn the Catholics for having “recoined the truth like forgers.” The author concludes “Do not facts support these accusations?”

14. “And from those who said: ‘We are Christians,’ We took their Covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message which was sent to them. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, and Allah will inform them of what they used to do.

15. O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger (Muhammad) come to you, explaining to you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Indeed, there has come to you a light from Allah and a plain Scripture.

16. Wherewith Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of peace. He brings them out of darkness by His will into light, and guides them to a straight path.

17. They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then has the least power against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He creates what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things.

18. The Jews and Christians say: We are sons of Allah and His loved ones. Say; Why then does He punish you for your sins? No, you are but mortals of His creating. He forgives whom He will, and punishes whom He will. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and unto Him is the return (of all).

19. O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger (Muhammad) come unto you to make things plain after a break in (the series of) the messengers, lest you should say: There came not unto us a messenger of cheer nor any Warner. Now has a messenger of cheer and a Warner come unto you. And Allah is Able to do all things.” (Quran 5:14-19)

St. Augustine himself, a man acknowledged and looked up to by both Protestants and Catholics alike, professed that there were secret doctrines in the Christian religion and that:

“…there were many things true in the Christian religion which it was not convenient for the vulgar [common people] to know, and that some things were false, but convenient for the vulgar to believe in them.”

Sir Higgins admits:

“It is not unfair to suppose that in these withheld truths we have part of the modern Christian mysteries, and I think it will hardly be denied that the church, whose highest authorities held such doctrines, would not scruple to retouch the sacred writings.”

Even the epistles attributed to Paul were not written by him. After years of research, Catholics and Protestants alike agree that of the thirteen epistles attributed to Paul only seven are genuinely his. They are: Romans, 1, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philipians, Philemon, and 1 Thessalonians.

Christian sects are not even agreed on the definition of what exactly is an “inspired” book of God. The Protestants are taught that there are 66 truly “inspired” books in the Bible, while the Catholics have been taught that there are 73 truly “inspired” books, not to mention the many other sects and their “newer” books, such as the Mormons, etc. As we shall see shortly, the very first Christians, for many generations, did not follow either the 66 books of the Protestants, nor the 73 books of the Catholics. Quite the opposite, they believed in books that were, many generations later, “recognized” to be fabrications and apocrypha by a more enlightened age than that of the apostles.


-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: stan
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by Squeegie

Wonder of wonders-

I just found a website that lists 102 clear contradictions found in the quran!


Now the 64 cent question-

Does anyone have a clue why I might make that statement? Hint: I didn't find such a website, though I'm sure one exists, so I didn't say it for the sake of one-upsmanship.



Those 102 contradictions hv been answered long time back

Hint:. I know a site which list 101 contradiction in Quran and i know a site which has answered them :)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 11:41pm
 
 The Bible has been made pretty transparent. Any scholor is free to charge what he will in criticism of it.
 
 But leaving that aside. Is the Bible so far removed from the truth, that in its present form, it presents a different truth to that held by the early Christians in relation to Jesus nature ? Did they believe he was the Son of God ? Did they believe in the Holy Spirit... Did they believe Jesus was God from God ?
 
 The answer is yes....
 
 No-one claims the Bible is penned by God, yet Muslims would have you believe the Quran was . No Christian believes Jesus wrote the OT..  they never did.
 
 Muslims claim the Quran has never been altered. Very possible.. but its neither here nor there to me personally. Islam holds that Muhammuds companions recorded his words while he was still alive.
 The great thing here though is that, Muhammud kept the ace card up his sleeve by proclaiming to his followers that revelation can be changed ofcourse ... Quite handy.
 
    "When We substitute one revelation for another, - and Allah knows best what He reveals, - they say 'Thou art a forger: But most of them understand not. Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth."

    "None of our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar--Knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?....Would you question your Apostle as Moses was questioned of old?" (Suras 16:101 and 2:106,108).

    Why didn't someone shout .. "Yes"...
    And this was accepted as scripture !!!! an all time first in history for God to warn that he may just have second thoughts in regards to revelation.
    Oh way oh why didn't someone shout Yes.
 In other words.. if he blunders along the way, it can be reworked a tad here and there. Brilliant. And yet still even the Quran has its own contradictions, imagine that .
 
 
P.S .. so much for our continuation of our discussion on page 1.
 
 
 
 


-------------
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 11:43pm
Those 102 contradictions hv been answered long time back
 -Stan
 
 Anyone can regurgitate the same explanations to the same contradictions. Thats easy
 
 Whats not easy is accepting the explanations hold any weight.


-------------
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 25 December 2008 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 
 The Bible has been made pretty transparent. Any scholor is free to charge what he will in criticism of it.
 
 But leaving that aside. Is the Bible so far removed from the truth, that in its present form, it presents a different truth to that held by the early Christians in relation to Jesus nature ? Did they believe he was the Son of God ? Did they believe in the Holy Spirit... Did they believe Jesus was God from God ?
 
 The answer is yes....
 
Please answer all these questions one by one thank you:
 
Firstly let me get this right! Because of Adam n Eve's sin that Christians claim was NEVER forgiven! All of humanity are born with original sin? But if Jesus died for that original sin to be wiped out that means all of mankind is sinless after the crucification but not before the crucification? And anyone who commits murder and rape are forgiven because Jesus died for their sins?

Why would God send himself to the earth and crucify himself so that his own creations can rid themselves of the original sin?gosh that notion really does not make sense!

A God that created Adam and Eve himself and created them to be weak to their desires and then because they gave in to their desires and sinned then God himself had to lower himself and come to the earth to wipe out the original sin from all his creations and had to suffer a miserable death and then got taken up into heaven and was suddenly alive again! goshh this is unthinkable!

Why would god lower himself and bring himself to the earth when he can put his message and miracles into a normal human being? its the same way why does he need angels when he can do the job himself?

Does any Christian actually understand the essence of god?

A God that needs food to survive otherwise would die of starvation? a God that needs to drink water otherwise would die of dehydration?A God that excretes filthy waste everyday? A God that gets sick, and feels pain and a God thet dies a miserable petty death at the hand of his enemy's?Why on earth would God want to feel what a human feels?Is he not the one with knowledge of all things? This is all way to above him he is too supreme and high to be lowered like this!

How can the almighty supreme most beautiful most high most beneficient,self sufficient lord be thought of in this way?

Give me verses from the Bible that it says that mankind should worship the son Jesus more than the father!

Give me one verse in the Bible that the Trinity is mentioned?

If what the Christians claim that Jesus is God then did Mary give birth to God? Then God come out of a human women(mary) right? If so then is Mary the mother of God and God her son? If she gave birth to God himself then she must be the Mother of god and a God herself!

Give me one verse in the Bible that explains followers of Jesus are called Christians!

Or is all this man made? deviated from original scriptures from various people over the centurys?Who included what they wanted to include and disregarded what they wanted to disregard from the Bible? Why was Mary chastity questioned in the bible? Do you not belive she was pure(virgin)?


-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 26 December 2008 at 1:14am
Originally posted by Damo808

 
 The Bible has been made pretty transparent. Any scholor is free to charge what he will in criticism of it.
 
 But leaving that aside. Is the Bible so far removed from the truth, that in its present form, it presents a different truth to that held by the early Christians in relation to Jesus nature ? Did they believe he was the Son of God ? Did they believe in the Holy Spirit... Did they believe Jesus was God from God ?
 
 The answer is yes....
 
Please answer all these questions one by one thank you:
 
Firstly let me get this right! Because of Adam n Eve's sin that Christians claim was NEVER forgiven! All of humanity are born with original sin? But if Jesus died for that original sin to be wiped out that means all of mankind is sinless after the crucification but not before the crucification? And anyone who commits murder and rape are forgiven because Jesus died for their sins?
 
 No... Adam and Eve were forgiven, thats why their seed was promised Salvation. However the stain of sin remained on humanity 
 
 Jesus Crucifixion, was intended to be the perfect sacrifice which would for the first time cleanse sin. However this doesn't mean that sin no longer existed. Jesus being perfect and dying for the sins of others was made eternal High Priest, the only mediator between man and God the Father where-as the earthly high priests of the temple offered up animals to God, though this did not promise Salvation, or remove the stain of sin from men.
 
Why would God send himself to the earth and crucify himself so that his own creations can rid themselves of the original sin?gosh that notion really does not make sense!
 
 To be honest. Fundamentally this is because Muslims view God ( God the Father to Christians) differently from the way Christians view God. Christians view God as their Father. Its a demonstration of how much He is willing to endure us. He accepted our own mortal agonies on our level.
 Personally i think on the story of Abraham, who all monotheist faiths ascribe as the father of the faiths. Way back then, God tested him among all men. He asked Him for the sacrifice of his beloved son, which he was willing to do without question albeit with an almighty heavy heart. Yet God stopped him at the last moment. Could God here have been seeing if man would do for Him what He intended to do for man much later, for he was impressed by Abrahams faith.
 


A God that created Adam and Eve himself and created them to be weak to their desires and then because they gave in to their desires and sinned then God himself had to lower himself and come to the earth to wipe out the original sin from all his creations and had to suffer a miserable death and then got taken up into heaven and was suddenly alive again! goshh this is unthinkable!

 

 Again..unthinkable if by an Islamic understanding of the nature of God.
 
Adam and eve were human, and susceptable to temptation. But they did have freewill. There aren't varying degrees of freewill, its all or nothing, or freewill, or be conditioned you could say. In which case, how would that add any glory to God, having created man in a pre-conditioned state of will.
 
 
Why would god lower himself and bring himself to the earth when he can put his message and miracles into a normal human being? its the same way why does he need angels when he can do the job himself?
 
 
 This again relates to how differently we both view God in nature. Simply put, God does what He does because he loves us as his own , not as expendable objects of little value. 


Does any Christian actually understand the essence of god?

 Does anyone ? We only take from what we hold to be true in scripture and relate to God from that. Muslims do likewise with the Quran, which is why we draw differening perspectives. Either way, each source only gives but a glimmer of God's essence.

 
A God that needs food to survive otherwise would die of starvation? a God that needs to drink water otherwise would die of dehydration?A God that excretes filthy waste everyday? A God that gets sick, and feels pain and a God thet dies a miserable petty death at the hand of his enemy's?Why on earth would God want to feel what a human feels?Is he not the one with knowledge of all things? This is all way to above him he is too supreme and high to be lowered like this!
 
 
 You see... you view God the way all gods have been percieved by man,  in that they are too great to actually interact with man in anyway which would be seen by men as below their status. This is only true of earthly kings and queens, rulers of great dynasties etc. So we automatically project this mythical view onto God, because this is what man has always believed concerning false gods therefore God almighty is just another god in this understanding.
 
 Jesus pre-incarnate was God he emptied Himself of His heavenly glory to take upon man's own burden.
 
 
How can the almighty supreme most beautiful most high most beneficient,self sufficient lord be thought of in this way?
 
 Because only He can carry it off and still leave with with His perfection intact.

Give me verses from the Bible that it says that mankind should worship the son Jesus more than the father!
 
 There are none, therefore we don't.

Give me one verse in the Bible that the Trinity is mentioned?
 
ZZZZZZZZZZZ   There is no mention of the word Trinity in scripture... no-one claims it is. However there are verses which conclude that God consists of three distinct individuals, which coins the phrase Trinity. Though i'm sure you knew that much already, albeit you dis-agree with it.


If what the Christians claim that Jesus is God then did Mary give birth to God? Then God come out of a human women(mary) right? If so then is Mary the mother of God and God her son? If she gave birth to God himself then she must be the Mother of god and a God herself!
 
 
 Grossly oversimplified.
 Mary a Virgin, concieved, unique we agree. Did this occur anywhere else in scripture ? No. So there is clear significance with the child in question here, rather than what Islam teaches was just to show men a mirracle of God's wonder.
  If Jesus was God, then Mary is the Mother of God, in that she bore God in Her womb, and weaned Him on her breast and raised him up into adulthood. This constitutes motherhood. So technically yes, Mary is the Mother of God in that sense. However also unique is that Jesus existed prior to his human conception.  
 


Give me one verse in the Bible that explains followers of Jesus are called Christians!
 
  1 Peter :4
 

Or is all this man made? deviated from original scriptures from various people over the centurys?Who included what they wanted to include and disregarded what they wanted to disregard from the Bible? Why was Mary chastity questioned in the bible? Do you not belive she was pure(virgin)?
 
 Mary's chastity was questioned because she was claiming to be a Virgin... is that not obvious ??? Ofcourse i believe she was an always remained a Virgin
 As regards to the bible and its contents your free judge it as you see fit. However, testemony from the very earliest Christians, the apostals of the apostals themselves bore witness to:
 
1God the Father
 
2 Jesus as the Son of God (God) 
 
3 The Holy Spirit as God
 
4 That Jesus was Crucified and rose again on the third day.
 
 The above issues are the key ones which separate Muslims and Christians. Yet they were intrinsic to the Christian faith prior to the NT even being cannonised.


-------------
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Squeegie
Date Posted: 26 December 2008 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by stan

Originally posted by Squeegie

Wonder of wonders-

I just found a website that lists 102 clear contradictions found in the quran!


Now the 64 cent question-

Does anyone have a clue why I might make that statement? Hint: I didn't find such a website, though I'm sure one exists, so I didn't say it for the sake of one-upsmanship.



Those 102 contradictions hv been answered long time back

Hint:. I know a site which list 101 contradiction in Quran and i know a site which has answered them :)


Correct, Stan. There is an answer for every supposed contradiction out there, both for the quran and for the bible. The contradiction game is a pointless one because the adherents of the faith in question knows that the "problems" are only a problem to those who do not wish to believe. Faith is almost as much a matter of the will as it is a gift from God. Therefor, the contradiction game is a waste of time because a person who want s to believe God's record of himself, be it the bible or the quran, will do so regardless of the objections from whoever doesn't want to believe.


Posted By: stan
Date Posted: 26 December 2008 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by Squeegie

Originally posted by stan

Originally posted by Squeegie

Wonder of wonders-

I just found a website that lists 102 clear contradictions found in the quran!


Now the 64 cent question-

Does anyone have a clue why I might make that statement? Hint: I didn't find such a website, though I'm sure one exists, so I didn't say it for the sake of one-upsmanship.



Those 102 contradictions hv been answered long time back

Hint:. I know a site which list 101 contradiction in Quran and i know a site which has answered them :)


Correct, Stan. There is an answer for every supposed contradiction out there, both for the quran and for the bible. The contradiction game is a pointless one because the adherents of the faith in question knows that the "problems" are only a problem to those who do not wish to believe. Faith is almost as much a matter of the will as it is a gift from God. Therefor, the contradiction game is a waste of time because a person who want s to believe God's record of himself, be it the bible or the quran, will do so regardless of the objections from whoever doesn't want to believe.



Sis i agree with the faith part of urs. If layman like u and me start finding out contradictions then it doesn't hold any weight and it only shows prejudice against each others religion since neither of us are scholars in their own religion let alone the others religion.

But if the scholars of adherent faith agree to it, then one needs to think hard abt it.




Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 26 December 2008 at 11:48pm
[QUOTE=Damo808]
 
 
No... Adam and Eve were forgiven, thats why their seed was promised Salvation. However the stain of sin remained on humanity 
 
So are you suggesting that God couldn't keep Jesus from sin.. he had to be God .. man to be free from sin?

The virgin birth was the reason Jesus is considered to have been born without sin.. since he had no father (earthly) and his mother was found to "be with child".

Jesus did not need to be God to be born sinless..

You know .. there are way too many things God cannot do in Christianity.

Please show me the verse where it says you have to believe Jesus is God to be saved?
 
 Jesus Crucifixion, was intended to be the perfect sacrifice which would for the first time cleanse sin. However this doesn't mean that sin no longer existed. Jesus being perfect and dying for the sins of others was made eternal High Priest, the only mediator between man and God the Father where-as the earthly high priests of the temple offered up animals to God, though this did not promise Salvation, or remove the stain of sin from men.
 

We Muslims agree that GOD Almighty became very upset from Adam and his wife Eve, but He the Almighty then forgave them and gave Adam peace be upon him Divine Revelations, thus Adam became Allah Almighty's first Messenger and Prophet.  We don't believe that who ever came before Jesus will end up in Hell.  Islam didn't start with Muhammad peace be upon him.  No, Islam started with Adam!  So everyone who followed the Message of the Messenger of GOD Almighty that was sent to his people is considered a Muslim and will end up in Paradise God willing.

Christians believe that everyone is born a sinner. Everyone is born condemned and the only way to redeem yourself is that you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Is that really fair? I mean you are born condemned from the beginning. So even a poor innocent baby that is newly born is a sinner. If that baby does not redeem itself by putting its faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and dies then the poor baby is condemned to hell. How can you expect a baby that cannot comprehend or think to accept Jesus as its Lord? What if the poor baby dies before it grows up to become able to rationalize and accept a religion. What about a mentally retarded person that cannot think for him self? He is a sinner by nature and will be doomed to Hell for not recognizing Jesus as Lord and Savior simply because his mind cannot!

Unlike Islam, which is a just religion does not teach original sin. Islam teaches that everyone is born pure and it is us who corrupt our selves.

 Islam gives the Muslims time to grow up and be able to use our rationality and reason in order to choose a religion.  What about the madman? Is he also a sinner? According to original sin he is. How can God condemn a madman who cannot use his reason and be able to make a rational decision? Truly this is unjust. Islam does not hold these kind of people accountable. 
 
 No... Adam and Eve were forgiven, thats why their seed was promised Salvation. However the stain of sin remained on humanity 
 
 Jesus Crucifixion, was intended to be the perfect sacrifice which would for the first time cleanse sin. However this doesn't mean that sin no longer existed. Jesus being perfect and dying for the sins of others was made eternal High Priest, the only mediator between man and God the Father where-as the earthly high priests of the temple offered up animals to God, though this did not promise Salvation, or remove the stain of sin from men.
 
This is very illogical indeed. Why does a price have to be paid for? Why can't we just repent and have God forgive us for our sins just like how Jesus taught in Matthew 6:12?

Humans are sinning against God, so God becomes a human being and then punishes himself because of what we did? There is no logic to this what so ever. 

God does not need to become a human being in order to show us how to live. This is why he sends down messengers because that is their job. 

ANTHROPOMORPHISM

a.   God need not take human form to understand human being.

Most of the other religions some time or the other believes in the philosophy of anthropomorphism i.e. God take human form. They have a very good logic for it Almighty God is so pure and Holy the he is unaware of the hardships, shortcomings, difficulties feelings etc. of the human being. He does not know how does a person feel when he is hurt or when he is in trouble etc. Therefore in order to set the rules for the human beings. He came down to the earth in the form of a human being. On the face of it, it seems to be a very good logic.

b.   Creator prepares an instruction manual.

Suppose I manufacture a tape recorder. Do I have to become a tape recorder to know what is good or what is bad for the tape recorder? I write an instruction manual. In order to listen to the audiocassette, insert the cassette and press the play button. In order to stop, press the stop button. If you want to fast-forward press the FF. button. Do not drop it from a height it will get damaged. Do not immerse it in water it will get spoilt. I write an instruction manual. The dos and don’ts for the machine.

c.   Holy Qur’an is the instruction manual for the human being.

In the similar fashion our lord and creator Allah (SWT) need not come in the form of a human being to know what is good or bad for the human being. He only has to reveal the instruction manual the last and final instruction manual of the human beings is the Holy Qur’an.

The dos and don’ts for the human beings is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an.

d.   Allah chooses messengers:

Allah (SWT) need not come down personally for writing the instruction manual. He chooses a man amongst men to deliver the message and communication with him at a higher level through the revelation. Such chosen men are called as messengers and prophets of God.

The real issue here is whether salvation is attained by keeping the law or by the justification by faith in Jesus Christ alone. As an example, Jesus's teaching on the Prodigal Son, who was forgiven because of his repentance. There is no teaching of atonement here!

Many of the best references to support the theology which Christians hold to and support in their conversations are gleaned from the epistles of Paul. Are Paul's letters trustworthy? How can he be given so much authority? Aman who NEVER EVEN SAW JESUS OR MET ANY OF HIS DISCIPLES!WHO WAS HE? His works are clearly and non-authoritative because of the clear unreliablity of who he really was! Think to youreselves! Christianity is not primarily the teachings of Jesus it is mainly the teachings and ammendments and deletions aswell as additions of PAUL! He did'nt even know Jesus or ever met him and why did he completlely change Christianity to suit himself or the way he wanted it to be?What gave him that right?

Christianity was clearly founded by Paul and not by Jesus. Much of what Christians belive was added to later on by Paul and his followers, in direct contradiction to Jesus's teachings!

The Gospels are diametrically opposed to the material found in the letters of Paul.There are clear "contradictions" between that which Jesus taught and what Paul wrote and this proves that the message of Jesus, a true Jewish Pharisee, was not the same as that of Paul's.
 

Paul, however, says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and are justified by a gift. This view of the atonement, they feel, contradicts the teaching of Jesus. But does it?

Pauline doctrine passed to Rome then Bavaria and southern France, up to ireland, Scotland and then we get the Catholic popes who altered Pauline doctrine and merged it with Druid mysticism through King James and later the New Work under the banner of Freemasonry a corrupted version of Hermeticism and the Wisdom of Thoth. This is why all Scottish Rite Mason who know nothing about Masonry posess up to the thrid grade of knowledge then pay off their lords to gain status up to 32 or 33 degrees but still cant figure the Sirius Mystery or the riddle of the Sphinx.
 
ZZZZZZZZZZZ   There is no mention of the word Trinity in scripture... no-one claims it is. However there are verses which conclude that God consists of three distinct individuals, which coins the phrase Trinity. Though i'm sure you knew that much already, albeit you dis-agree with it
 
Oh of course it was made up by Paul who brought in his pagan beliefs!
 
It is a very confusing notion to say the least!

"One may say with one's lips: 'I believe that God is one, and also three'--but no one can believe it, because the words have no sense."
(What is Religion by Leo Tolstoy).

Where in the Bible is Trinity mentioned?

Does any Christian truly understand what the trinity actually is? I have never met anyone who has understood the Trinity. Besides, all that a christian can offer is a false analogy. From this, all they show is the lack of understanding of what the Trinity is suppose to be.

 
I thought the word "Christian" was not known at the time of Jesus and was brought in later!
 
 
Mary's chastity was questioned because she was claiming to be a Virgin... is that not obvious ??? Ofcourse i believe she was an always remained a Virgin
 
Are u telling me that nowhere in the Bible does it state that Mary's chastity was questioned when she bore God and fed God from her breast and raised God up as a child! How could the Bible question the chastity of the mother of God? How could God not protect her from this shame and dishonor?
 
As regards to the bible and its contents your free judge it as you see fit. However, testemony from the very earliest Christians, the apostals of the apostals themselves bore witness to:
 
1God the Father
 
2 Jesus as the Son of God (God) 
 
3 The Holy Spirit as God
 
4 That Jesus was Crucified and rose again on the third day.
 
 The above issues are the key ones which separate Muslims and Christians. Yet they were intrinsic to the Christian faith prior to the NT even being cannonised.
 
Please give me verses from the Bible to back up all these points thank you!
 
With regards to Paul he was not a Pharisee, nor even a Jew, but a gentile proselyte to Judaism. Paul failed in becoming a Pharisee, and so allied himself to the Sadducees and the High Priest, two groups who enjoyed their privileged status under Roman occupation, and so were in conflict with the Pharisees, who wished to be rid of the Roman oppressors.

It was due to a near nervous breakdown that Paul split from this group and formed a new religion, taking ideas such as baptism, the eucharist, christology, the Holy Spirit, and eschatology and melded them with Jewish sacred history, Gnosticism, and the pagan mystery religions.

Jesus taught beliefs which are quite common to Jewish Pharisaical teaching. He was a figure within Judaism and so would not have accepted his own divinity. This is clear from the first three Synoptic gospels, but not John, which was written much later, after the evolution of this theology by the early Christians led by Paul.

Jesus never regarded himself as a sacrifice for humanity, a belief which Maccoby contends arose after his death, as it was not part of Jewish theology.

Creating a divine character for Jesus has Jewish roots. Elijah and Enoch were both taken up to heaven, which transcended other human experiences. This well- known Biblical event could be the stepping stone to the belief of the divinity of a person who then takes on the divine qualities of God.

There is no root in Judaism, however, for the sacrifice of the divine figure. Jews never worshipped the allegorical concept of God's divine wisdom as found in the book of Proverbs. And nowhere did Jesus ever make a claim of deity, calling himself instead the Messiah, a title which was political and which was quite common in those days. In fact, much of Jesus's teachings were also political in nature, and it was for this reason that the Jews wanted to put him to death. Those passages which do point to Jesus' spiritual nature were added later by Paul and his disciples.

Jesus did not wish to abrogate Judaism, but was only in conflict with certain Jewish figures, which is normal within Jewish circles. He neither abrogated the Torah nor reformed it, but interpreted it, and in ways not unlike the Pharisees. For instance, curing sick people on the sabbath is not forbidden by the Mishnah nor the Talmud, which are both Pharisaic writings.

The ideas attributed to Jesus would have appalled him, had he known about them, therefore they could only have been attributed to him after his death. The gospels were written 40 years and later after the death of Jesus, thus there was plenty of time for these theological ideas to evolve within the Christian community.

Belief in Jesus as God.. is NOT part of the Gospel.. the Gospel message is simply that you believe in Him.. and countless verses show this throughout the New Testament.. do a concordance check and see this.


-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 26 December 2008 at 11:56pm

Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity
 
One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):

(i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]

(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]

(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]

(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]

 
 
2. The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law 
 
Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
 
 
3. God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)
 
The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:
 
(i) "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
[The Bible, John 14:24]
 
 
(ii) "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
[The Bible, John 17:3]
 

 
4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity
 
Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).
 
 
5.  Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God
 
The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]

 
 
6.  The First Commandment is that God is One
 
The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]

It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.

Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.
 
 
III CONCEPT OF GOD IN OLD TESTAMENT:
 
1. God is One
 
The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".


It is a Hebrew quotation which means:

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]

 
 
2. Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah
 
The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:
   
(i)  "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]
 
   
(ii) "I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]
 
   
(iii) "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]
 

 
3. Old Testament condemns idol worship
 
   
(i)  Old Testament condemns idol worship in the following verses:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]

 
   
(ii) A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:

"Thou shalt have none other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth."

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]

 



-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 27 December 2008 at 10:01am
 
 
No... Adam and Eve were forgiven, thats why their seed was promised Salvation. However the stain of sin remained on humanity 
 
So are you suggesting that God couldn't keep Jesus from sin.. he had to be God .. man to be free from sin?
 
The virgin birth was the reason Jesus is considered to have been born without sin.. since he had no father (earthly) and his mother was found to "be with child".

Jesus did not need to be God to be born sinless..

You know .. there are way too many things God cannot do in Christianity.

 
 Sorry, but what am i supposed to say to something like that... Because we believe God done things in a certain manner, who are you to say what He willed himself to do or did not. As i said your view of God is different to Christians, we do not put limitations on God, however we don't believe God to be just this figure who sits upon a throne and spits out fury and wrath uopn anyone who suggests anything that would be below Him because of our own narrow interpretation of what God should or should not be.

Please show me the verse where it says you have to believe Jesus is God to be saved?
 
Whether believing Jesus was God or not may or may not have any baring on Salvation, however , to believe He isn't is to deny the testemony of scripture.
 
 John 1-1, Matthew 28:19, Philippians 2:6, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:2-3 are just a few verses which confirm Him as God.

Jesus Crucifixion, was intended to be the perfect sacrifice which would for the first time cleanse sin. However this doesn't mean that sin no longer existed. Jesus being perfect and dying for the sins of others was made eternal High Priest, the only mediator between man and God the Father where-as the earthly high priests of the temple offered up animals to God, though this did not promise Salvation, or remove the stain of sin from men.

 

We Muslims agree that GOD Almighty became very upset from Adam and his wife Eve, but He the Almighty then forgave them and gave Adam peace be upon him Divine Revelations, thus Adam became Allah Almighty's first Messenger and Prophet.  We don't believe that who ever came before Jesus will end up in Hell.  Islam didn't start with Muhammad peace be upon him.  No, Islam started with Adam!  So everyone who followed the Message of the Messenger of GOD Almighty that was sent to his people is considered a Muslim and will end up in Paradise God willing.

  Well thats all very well and i should say rather easy many centuries after revealed scripture for one to make such a claim. Suppose say tomorrow i claimed to have recieved Divine revelation as well as bringing in new religious laws and customs and over some time having gained quite a following then declared that this religion i have established was the original faith of the hebrews... What weight is there to substantiante this rather than my own word and those that follow me ?
 
 
Christians believe that everyone is born a sinner. Everyone is born condemned and the only way to redeem yourself is that you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Is that really fair? I mean you are born condemned from the beginning. So even a poor innocent baby that is newly born is a sinner. If that baby does not redeem itself by putting its faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and dies then the poor baby is condemned to hell. How can you expect a baby that cannot comprehend or think to accept Jesus as its Lord? What if the poor baby dies before it grows up to become able to rationalize and accept a religion. What about a mentally retarded person that cannot think for him self? He is a sinner by nature and will be doomed to Hell for not recognizing Jesus as Lord and Savior simply because his mind cannot!
 
 
 I'm sorry, but that is not a teaching of the Catholic Church. The church teaches that ultimately Jesus is the Saviour of man. But if one is innocently ignorant of such a teaching, be they a child, or an adult then they have no guilt upon them. One is judged on by what they interpret as Truth, and by the intentions of the heart. Those who existed before Christ, did not go to Hell ( eternal damnation) but to somewhere outside heaven and the earthly realm until Salvation through Christ. Where He would judge both the dead , and eventually the living at the end of time.
 
 
Unlike Islam, which is a just religion does not teach original sin. Islam teaches that everyone is born pure and it is us who corrupt ourselves.
 
 You imply Christianity is unjust because we do teach original sin ? If one comes to a conclusion in religion, it doesn't come down to accepting it from whether it is just or unjust, truth is truth if you come to that conclusion.
 
 
 Islam gives the Muslims time to grow up and be able to use our rationality and reason in order to choose a religion.
 
 Depends on what part of Islamic scripture you go by,  "No compulsion" or those judged apostates ? Usually if one is born into Islam, in Islam they will stay perhaps because of devotion, but surely there are some who fear being labelled an apostate and the trials that can bring. Therefore i disagree.
 
What about the madman? Is he also a sinner? According to original sin he is. How can God condemn a madman who cannot use his reason and be able to make a rational decision? Truly this is unjust. Islam does not hold these kind of people accountable. 
 
 And untrue. Again this comes down to that old saying... "ignorance is bliss". God judges everyone individually by what they percieve as truth and their capacity of undertanding.
 
 No... Adam and Eve were forgiven, thats why their seed was promised Salvation. However the stain of sin remained on humanity 
 
 Jesus Crucifixion, was intended to be the perfect sacrifice which would for the first time cleanse sin. However this doesn't mean that sin no longer existed. Jesus being perfect and dying for the sins of others was made eternal High Priest, the only mediator between man and God the Father where-as the earthly high priests of the temple offered up animals to God, though this did not promise Salvation, or remove the stain of sin from men.
 
This is very illogical indeed. Why does a price have to be paid for? Why can't we just repent and have God forgive us for our sins just like how Jesus taught in Matthew 6:12?
 
 The stain of sin still exists. No-one can enter the kingdom of God until sin has been purged from the soul.

Humans are sinning against God, so God becomes a human being and then punishes himself because of what we did? There is no logic to this what so ever. 

 No he doesn't punish Himself, he allows himself to be delivered into mortal death, whereby only He can destroy death, that is, eternal separation from God "the second death"
 
God does not need to become a human being in order to show us how to live. This is why he sends down messengers because that is their job. 
 
 Thats your interpretation, or belief, but according to Christians this was the purpose of the Messiah. No prophet has the ability to remove the stain of sin from man as they themselves are born into sin, and are incapable of remaining free from it .
 
 
ANTHROPOMORPHISM
a.   God need not take human form to understand human being.

Most of the other religions some time or the other believes in the philosophy of anthropomorphism i.e. God take human form. They have a very good logic for it Almighty God is so pure and Holy the he is unaware of the hardships, shortcomings, difficulties feelings etc. of the human being. He does not know how does a person feel when he is hurt or when he is in trouble etc. Therefore in order to set the rules for the human beings. He came down to the earth in the form of a human being. On the face of it, it seems to be a very good logic.

 Then it is you who sets limitations on God, not Christians. But really the above is just one belief separated from the other. And what does the Almighty have in common with false dieties anyway.
 

b.   Creator prepares an instruction manual.

Suppose I manufacture a tape recorder. Do I have to become a tape recorder to know what is good or what is bad for the tape recorder? I write an instruction manual. In order to listen to the audiocassette, insert the cassette and press the play button. In order to stop, press the stop button. If you want to fast-forward press the FF. button. Do not drop it from a height it will get damaged. Do not immerse it in water it will get spoilt. I write an instruction manual. The dos and don’ts for the machine.

c.   Holy Qur’an is the instruction manual for the human being.

In the similar fashion our lord and creator Allah (SWT) need not come in the form of a human being to know what is good or bad for the human being. He only has to reveal the instruction manual the last and final instruction manual of the human beings is the Holy Qur’an.

The dos and don’ts for the human beings is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an.

d.   Allah chooses messengers:

Allah (SWT) need not come down personally for writing the instruction manual. He chooses a man amongst men to deliver the message and communication with him at a higher level through the revelation. Such chosen men are called as messengers and prophets of God.

The real issue here is whether salvation is attained by keeping the law or by the justification by faith in Jesus Christ alone. As an example, Jesus's teaching on the Prodigal Son, who was forgiven because of his repentance. There is no teaching of atonement here!

Many of the best references to support the theology which Christians hold to and support in their conversations are gleaned from the epistles of Paul. Are Paul's letters trustworthy? How can he be given so much authority? Aman who NEVER EVEN SAW JESUS OR MET ANY OF HIS DISCIPLES!WHO WAS HE? His works are clearly and non-authoritative because of the clear unreliablity of who he really was! Think to youreselves! Christianity is not primarily the teachings of Jesus it is mainly the teachings and ammendments and deletions aswell as additions of PAUL! He did'nt even know Jesus or ever met him and why did he completlely change Christianity to suit himself or the way he wanted it to be?What gave him that right?
 
 Christianity was clearly founded by Paul and not by Jesus. Much of what Christians belive was added to later on by Paul and his followers, in direct contradiction to Jesus's teachings!
The Gospels are diametrically opposed to the material found in the letters of Paul.There are clear "contradictions" between that which Jesus taught and what Paul wrote and this proves that the message of Jesus, a true Jewish Pharisee, was not the same as that of Paul's.
 

Paul, however, says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and are justified by a gift. This view of the atonement, they feel, contradicts the teaching of Jesus. But does it?

Pauline doctrine passed to Rome then Bavaria and southern France, up to ireland, Scotland and then we get the Catholic popes who altered Pauline doctrine and merged it with Druid mysticism through King James and later the New Work under the banner of Freemasonry a corrupted version of Hermeticism and the Wisdom of Thoth. This is why all Scottish Rite Mason who know nothing about Masonry posess up to the thrid grade of knowledge then pay off their lords to gain status up to 32 or 33 degrees but still cant figure the Sirius Mystery or the riddle of the Sphinx.

About your tape recorder, i can see your analogy, but were talking about what Christians believe is God and His children, whom we beieve He loves and cherishes. As for Paul we don't soley depend on Pauls letters, the very earliest Christian Fathers, the apostals of John the Evangelist for example Justin martyr confirms Jesus as God -Son of God, the Holy Spirit as  distinct individual being but god also, and of course the God the Father. And that Jesus died and resurrected  after three days. the central tenants of the Faith.

 


 
ZZZZZZZZZZZ   There is no mention of the word Trinity in scripture... no-one claims it is. However there are verses which conclude that God consists of three distinct individuals, which coins the phrase Trinity. Though i'm sure you knew that much already, albeit you dis-agree with it
 
Oh of course it was made up by Paul who brought in his pagan beliefs!
 
It is a very confusing notion to say the least!

"One may say with one's lips: 'I believe that God is one, and also three'--but no one can believe it, because the words have no sense."
(What is Religion by Leo Tolstoy).

Where in the Bible is Trinity mentioned?

Does any Christian truly understand what the trinity actually is? I have never met anyone who has understood the Trinity. Besides, all that a christian can offer is a false analogy. From this, all they show is the lack of understanding of what the Trinity is suppose to be.

 
I thought the word "Christian" was not known at the time of Jesus and was brought in later!
 
 Whats's the big deal in the term "Christianity" it only denotes followers of Christ... Is there any mention of the word Islam in the OT  ? No, yet you claim it always existed. Can you see how petty the claims you make are ? As for the Trinity, Christians simply acknowlege it as Truth, they don't claim to know the whole intrinsic nature of it, much the same as no-one has seen the face of God, but they know some things from scripture about His Essence.
 
 
Mary's chastity was questioned because she was claiming to be a Virgin... is that not obvious ??? Ofcourse i believe she was an always remained a Virgin
 
Are u telling me that nowhere in the Bible does it state that Mary's chastity was questioned when she bore God and fed God from her breast and raised God up as a child! How could the Bible question the chastity of the mother of God? How could God not protect her from this shame and dishonor?
 
 No i'm not telling you that, you must have mis-read my statement. The Bible mentions the account of what happened , that others questioned Her virginity as would be expected. The bible confirms Her Virginity , it does not deny it. Perhaps you should read the account in Mathew.
 
As regards to the bible and its contents your free judge it as you see fit. However, testemony from the very earliest Christians, the apostals of the apostals themselves bore witness to:
 
1God the Father
 
2 Jesus as the Son of God (God) 
 
3 The Holy Spirit as God
 
4 That Jesus was Crucified and rose again on the third day.
 
 The above issues are the key ones which separate Muslims and Christians. Yet they were intrinsic to the Christian faith prior to the NT even being cannonised.
 
Please give me verses from the Bible to back up all these points thank you!
 
 Did you understand my last point ? I said, that even beyond the claims of the above which are in the Bible anyway. The earliest Christian fathers confirmed the above points in their writting. And they had nothing to do with St Paul.
 
With regards to Paul he was not a Pharisee, nor even a Jew, but a gentile proselyte to Judaism. Paul failed in becoming a Pharisee, and so allied himself to the Sadducees and the High Priest, two groups who enjoyed their privileged status under Roman occupation, and so were in conflict with the Pharisees, who wished to be rid of the Roman oppressors.
 
And the proof of this is ..... where ?

It was due to a near nervous breakdown that Paul split from this group and formed a new religion, taking ideas such as baptism, the eucharist, christology, the Holy Spirit, and eschatology and melded them with Jewish sacred history, Gnosticism, and the pagan mystery religions.

Jesus taught beliefs which are quite common to Jewish Pharisaical teaching. He was a figure within Judaism and so would not have accepted his own divinity. This is clear from the first three Synoptic gospels, but not John, which was written much later, after the evolution of this theology by the early Christians led by Paul.

Jesus never regarded himself as a sacrifice for humanity, a belief which Maccoby contends arose after his death, as it was not part of Jewish theology.

Creating a divine character for Jesus has Jewish roots. Elijah and Enoch were both taken up to heaven, which transcended other human experiences. This well- known Biblical event could be the stepping stone to the belief of the divinity of a person who then takes on the divine qualities of God.

There is no root in Judaism, however, for the sacrifice of the divine figure. Jews never worshipped the allegorical concept of God's divine wisdom as found in the book of Proverbs. And nowhere did Jesus ever make a claim of deity, calling himself instead the Messiah, a title which was political and which was quite common in those days. In fact, much of Jesus's teachings were also political in nature, and it was for this reason that the Jews wanted to put him to death. Those passages which do point to Jesus' spiritual nature were added later by Paul and his disciples.

 
Jesus did not wish to abrogate Judaism, but was only in conflict with certain Jewish figures, which is normal within Jewish circles. He neither abrogated the Torah nor reformed it, but interpreted it, and in ways not unlike the Pharisees. For instance, curing sick people on the sabbath is not forbidden by the Mishnah nor the Talmud, which are both Pharisaic writings.

The ideas attributed to Jesus would have appalled him, had he known about them, therefore they could only have been attributed to him after his death. The gospels were written 40 years and later after the death of Jesus, thus there was plenty of time for these theological ideas to evolve within the Christian community.

Belief in Jesus as God.. is NOT part of the Gospel.. the Gospel message is simply that you believe in Him.. and countless verses show this throughout the New Testament.. do a concordance check and see this.
 
Again... much of what you say above has already been addressed. What you said may have had more credance , if we did not have the weight of testemony from the earliest sources in Christianity, the first fathers of the Church, who were themselves apostals of the apostals while they yet lived. Those who DID NOT belong to Paul.


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: LtTony
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 1:27am
Originally posted by The_truth

 

  Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

  In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

  How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a)  Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

  God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

  How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a)  Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

  How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

(b)  Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a)  Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

(b)  Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

  When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b)  Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

  How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

  When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a)  One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

   How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

(b)  Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

  In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha,   King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year  (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

  How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

  Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? 

(a)  Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

  How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

  How many were the children of Azgad?

(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

  How many were the children of Adin?

(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

  How many were the children of Hashum?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

  How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

  Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

(a) 29,818 (Ezra)

(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)

  How many singers accompanied the assembly?

(a)  Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

  What was the name of King Abijah’s mother?

(a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)

(b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

  Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

(b)  No (Joshua 15:63)

  Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)

  Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

  Who was the father of Shealtiel?

(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)

(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)

  Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

(a) Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)

(b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

  Who was the father of Uzziah?

(a)   Joram (Matthew 1:8)

(b)  Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

  Who as the father of Jechoniah?

(a)   Josiah (Matthew 1:11)

(b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

  How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)

(b)  But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

  Who was the father of Shelah?

(a)  Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)

(b)  Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

  Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

(a)  Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

(b)  No(John 1:19-21)

  Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?

(a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)

(b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

  Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

(a)  One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). “And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.”

(b)  Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). “They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.”

  How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

(a)  By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

(b)  His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

  Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)

(b)  On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

  When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

(a)  Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

(b)  No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

  Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

(a)  Yes(Mark6:8)

(b)  No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

  Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

(b)  No (Luke 9:9)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)

(b)  No (John 1:32,33)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

(a)   Yes (John 1:32, 33)

(b)  No (Matthew 11:2)

  According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

(a)   “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

(b)  “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)

  When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 21:12)

(b)  No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17).

  The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

(a)   Yes. (Matthew 21:19)

(b)    No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)

  Did Judas kiss Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

(b)  No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

  What did Jesus say about Peter’s denial?

(a)   “The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times” (John 13:38).

(b)  “Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times” (Mark 14:30) . When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

  Did Jesus bear his own cross?

(a)   Yes (John 19:17)

(b)  No (Matthew 27:31-32)

  Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

(a)   Yes(Matthew27:50-5 1;MarklS:37-38)

(b)  No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

  Did Jesus say anything secretly?

(a)   No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

(b)  Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

  Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

(a)   On the cross (Mark 15:23)

(b)  In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

  The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Mark 15:32)

(b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

  Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

(a)   Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43)

(b)  No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, “I have not yet ascended to the Father” (John 20:17)

  When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?

(a)  Yes(Acts9:7)

(b)  No(Acts22:9)

  When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:14)

(b) No (Acts 9:7)

  Did the voice spell out on the spot what Paul’s duties were to be?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:16-18)

(b)  No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)

  When the Israelites dwelt in ****tin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?

(a)  Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)

(b)  Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)

  How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?

(a)  Seventy souls (Genesis 4&27)

(b)  Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)

  What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?

(a)  He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)

(b)  He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)

  How did Judas die?

(a)  After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

(b)  After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

  Why is the field called “Field of Blood”?

(a)  Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)

(b)  Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)

  Who is a ransom for whom?

(a)  “The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). “Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... “(I Timothy 2:5-6)

(b)  “The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright” (Proverbs 21:18)

  Is the law of Moses useful?

(a)  Yes. “All scripture is... profitable...” (2 Timothy 3:16)

(b)  No. “. . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... “(Hebrews 7:18)

  What was the exact wording on the cross?

(a)  “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

(b)   “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

(c)   “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

(d)   “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

  Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

(a)  Yes (Matthew 14:5)

(b)  No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

  Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

(a)  Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

(b)  Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke’s gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

  Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collector’s office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?

(a)  Matthew (Matthew 9:9)

(b)  Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

  Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

(a)  After (Mark 14:12-17)

(b)  Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate’s judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

  Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

(a)  Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

(b)  No. (John 12:27)

  In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did ‘he move away from his disciples to pray?

(a)  Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)

(b)  One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)

  Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?

(a)  Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)

(b)  Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)

  What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

(a)   “Certainly this man was innocent” (Luke 23:47)

(b)  “Truly this man was the Son of God” (Mark 15:39)

  When Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? ” in what language did he speak?

(a)   Hebrew: the words are “Eloi, Eloi …..“(Matthew 27:46)

(b)  Aramaic: the words are “Eloi, Eloi ….. “(Mark   15:34)

  According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

(a)   “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” (Luke 23:46)

(b)  "It is finished" (John 19:30).

  When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 8:5)

(b)  No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)

(a)   Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

(b)  Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

 

(a)   God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

(b)  Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

  Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?

(a)   No (John 3:13)

(b)  Yes. “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11)

  Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?

(a)   Abiathar (Mark 2:26)

(b)  Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)

  Was Jesus’ body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

(a)   Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)

(b)  No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices “so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus)” (Mark 16: 1)

  When did the women buy the spices?

(a)   After “the Sabbath was past” (Mark 16:1)

(b)  Before the Sabbath. The women “prepared spices and ointments.” Then, “on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment” (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

  At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

(a)   “Toward the dawn” (Matthew 28: 1)

(b)  “When the sun had risen” (Mark 16:2)

  What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

(a)   To anoint Jesus’ body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)

(b)   To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)

(c)  For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

  A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?

(a)   They saw that the stone was “Rolled back” (Mark 16:4) They found the stone “rolled away from the tomb” (Luke 24:2) They saw that “the stone had been taken away from the tomb” (John 20:1)

(b)  As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

  Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus’ body?

(a)   Yes. “A young man in a white robe” (Mark 16:5). “Two men ... in dazzling apparel” later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)

(b) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him” (John 20:2)

  When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

(a)   Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)

(b)   On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus’ body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him “Teacher.” Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me...” (John 20:11 to 17)

  What was Jesus’ instruction for his disciples?

(a)  “Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me” (Matthew 2 8: 10)  

(b)   “Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17)

  When did the disciples return to Galilee?

(a)   Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee “some doubted” (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist

(b)   After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them “during forty days” (Acts 1:3), and “charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... “(Acts 1:4)

  To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?

(a)   “To the Ishmaelites” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh” (Genesis 37:36)

  Who brought Joseph to Egypt?

(a)   The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then “took Joseph to Egypt” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “The Midianites had sold him in Egypt” (Genesis 37:36)

(c)   Joseph said to his brothers “I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt” (Genesis 45:4)

  Does God change his mind?

(a)   Yes. “The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I repent that I have made Saul King...” (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

(b)   No. God “will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent” (I Samuel 15:29)

(c)   Yes. “And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel” (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. “The Lord was sorry that he made man” (Genesis 6:6)

“I am sorry that I have made them” (Genesis 6:7)

ii. “And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people” (Exodus 32:14).

iii. (Lots of other such references).

 

  Who killed Goliath?

(a)   David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)

(b)   Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)

  Who killed Saul?

(a)  “Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)

(b)   An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)

 
 

 

 

 

 

 
 
Nice cut and paste from this site:
 
http://www.islamway.com/english/images/library/contradictions.htm - http://www.islamway.com/english/images/library/contradictions.htm
 
Speaking of cut and paste, check this one out:
 
11. When quoting work not your own, please limit it to ~200 words and provide a source
 
 
 
 


Posted By: LtTony
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 1:36am
Originally posted by stan

Originally posted by Squeegie

Wonder of wonders-

I just found a website that lists 102 clear contradictions found in the quran!


Now the 64 cent question-

Does anyone have a clue why I might make that statement? Hint: I didn't find such a website, though I'm sure one exists, so I didn't say it for the sake of one-upsmanship.



Those 102 contradictions hv been answered long time back

 
So have the OP's.
 
http://www.debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm - http://www.debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm
 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8986/101-Contradictions-In-The-Bible - http://www.scribd.com/doc/8986/101-Contradictions-In-The-Bible
 
http://www.aomin.org/results.html?cx=015138337201457149671%3Adhrmihpmjl0&cof=FORID%3A11&q=shabir+ally#931 - http://www.aomin.org/results.html?cx=015138337201457149671%3Adhrmihpmjl0&cof=FORID%3A11&q=shabir+ally#931


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by LtTony

Originally posted by stan

Originally posted by Squeegie

Wonder of wonders-

I just found a website that lists 102 clear contradictions found in the quran!


Now the 64 cent question-

Does anyone have a clue why I might make that statement? Hint: I didn't find such a website, though I'm sure one exists, so I didn't say it for the sake of one-upsmanship.



Those 102 contradictions hv been answered long time back

 
So have the OP's.
 
http://www.debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm - http://www.debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm
 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8986/101-Contradictions-In-The-Bible - http://www.scribd.com/doc/8986/101-Contradictions-In-The-Bible
 
http://www.aomin.org/results.html?cx=015138337201457149671%3Adhrmihpmjl0&cof=FORID%3A11&q=shabir+ally#931 - http://www.aomin.org/results.html?cx=015138337201457149671%3Adhrmihpmjl0&cof=FORID%3A11&q=shabir+ally#931
 
Good way of avoiding the questions i posed to Christians throughout this forum!
 
The Illogical Trinity
 
Indeed one of the most illogical doctrines to have been invented is non other than the trinity, and no it is not a mystery, it just an illogical doctrine, not a mystery of God. Trinity is three persons, yet they say these three persons are one, that is not a mystery, that is simply bad math and bad logic and made up logic! Three is three, four is four, and one is one, three persons are three persons, three persons are not person, I, Umar, and Bassam are three different persons, we are not one person! If you saw three of us standing outside a shop would you say we are one person or three? Three off course! So the same thing with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they are three persons and not one.

To further show how illogical the Trinity is, Jesus the Son dies, and as you know Jesus is God, but if God does then logically who runs the universe and the universal affairs? Now since Trinity believes in three persons they will say the Father does, but that is very illogical indeed! So when Jesus dies the Father starts running things, so therefore part of God dies?! One God dies, and the other one continues to run the affairs of the universe while the other one is dead?! So while the Father runs the universe, you have the son Jesus laying dead and buried! Let us make it simple:


Muslim: Is Jesus God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Did Jesus die?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: And Jesus is God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: So Jesus died and Jesus is God so this mean God died

Christian: erm

Muslim: So who ran the world when Jesus died?

Christian: I believe in Trinity

Muslim: And?

Christian: Well I believe in three persons, the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit

Muslim: And Jesus is the Son right?

Christian: Correct

Muslim: And the Son died

Christian: Yes, and while the son was dead the Father and Holy Spirit were still alive and so they continued to run the affairs of the world

Muslim: So Jesus who is God is lying dead and buried, while the Father and Holy Spirit who are also God are running the universe?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: So one God is dead, and the other 2 run the affairs of the universe, may I know how this is all one God?

Christian: It is a mystery!

And that basically sums it up! While one God is dead, the other 2 run the universe! What an illogical insulting doctrine against the true monotheistic God! This is no different than pagans who had many different Gods for many different purposes, one God was for rain, one for sun, one for night etc etc, here we have the same thing, one God (Jesus) dies and the other 2 Gods carry on running the universe while the Son God is dead.

And Allah Knows Best!


-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: LtTony
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 2:43pm
"Good way of avoiding the questions i posed "
 
You haven't posed anything, truth.  You merely regurgitated someone else's.
 
"Truth."  Oh, the irony there.  "Truth" lifts "questions" then presents them as his own.
 
 
 
Consequently, I did about as much work as you did with the links I provided above.
 
 
 
http://www.debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm - http://www.debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm
 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8986/101-Contradictions-In-The-Bible - http://www.scribd.com/doc/8986/101-Contradictions-In-The-Bible
 
http://www.aomin.org/results.html?cx=015138337201457149671%3Adhrmihpmjl0&cof=FORID%3A11&q=shabir+ally#931 - http://www.aomin.org/results.html?cx=015138337201457149671%3Adhrmihpmjl0&cof=FORID%3A11&q=shabir+ally#931
 
 
Bring us something that is worth our time.


Posted By: Squeegie
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 3:13pm
Truth, how the discussion might REALLY go-

Muslim: Is Jesus God?

Christian: Yes. He displayed power over nature, healed illnesses, forgave sins, lived a life free of sin, lived that life with extreme devotion to his father, all hallmarks of how you might expect God in human form to behave.

Muslim: Did Jesus die?

Christian: Yes. The eyewitness accounts state that he expired on the cross and the spear thrust into his side gave evidence that his heart had stopped beating. He was most assuredly dead.

Muslim: And Jesus is God?

Christian: Yes. Good, you’re finally getting a handle on the concept.

Muslim: So Jesus died and Jesus is God so this mean God died

Christian: You are operating with a flawed understanding of what the doctrine of the trinity entails. You seem to be implying that God subtracted divinity from himself to become human. Rather he added humanity to himself . If God is by nature infinite and eternal, he cannot die. He must acquire something he doesn’t already have, hence the necessity for the incarnation. If he has acquired humanity and humans die, then it is possible for the son to die. But praise God, he can also take up again the life that he laid down.

Muslim: So who ran the world when Jesus died?

Christian: His father, obviously.

(this portion of the discussion was deleted because of its pointless redundancy)

Muslim: So one God is dead, and the other 2 run the affairs of the universe, may I know how this is all one God?

Christian: You seem to have polytheism confused with monotheism. As a Christian I have never asserted that the father, son, and spirit are separate Gods but rather are separate ways for God to express himself to humanity. You are making false statements regarding my understanding of God and I’m not going to argue your points based on a straw man you have erected that doesn’t agree with what I believe. You are basically asking me to defend a lie that I didn’t originate. Get your facts straight and then we can talk.


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 4:57pm
What is death other than a transition from one state of being to another ? So Jesus dies on the cross as was planned, does that imply he siezed to exist ? No. He merely returned to His former pre-incarnate state.

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Damo808

What is death other than a transition from one state of being to another ? So Jesus dies on the cross as was planned, does that imply he siezed to exist ? No. He merely returned to His former pre-incarnate state.
Really? Give me proof from the Bible that occured and happened!Thank you

-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Squeegie
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 6:18pm
Damo, apologies for the theft of your thunder, but-

Truth, John 17:5-

And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the existence of the world.

"before the existence of the world" implies a bit more than human existence, as though Jesus had a life before the time he spent on earth to which he would be returning after accomplishing his work on the cross. Before the world was made was a comparatively long time ago, meaning that Jesus had an existence before his birth. In that existence he shared God's glory according to the verse from John. I can see where you might find this confusing in that Muhammed 'revealed' that God doesn't share his glory and Jesus speaks as though he expects to have something returned that he feels is rightfully his.

Disagreement between the prophets of Allah. Oh dear.


Posted By: katy098
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 9:46pm
Wrong place...Please Delete


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"Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word." (Luke 1:38)


Posted By: stan
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Squeegie

Damo, apologies for the theft of your thunder, but-

Truth, John 17:5-

And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the existence of the world.

"before the existence of the world" implies a bit more than human existence, as though Jesus had a life before the time he spent on earth to which he would be returning after accomplishing his work on the cross. Before the world was made was a comparatively long time ago, meaning that Jesus had an existence before his birth. In that existence he shared God's glory according to the verse from John. I can see where you might find this confusing in that Muhammed 'revealed' that God doesn't share his glory and Jesus speaks as though he expects to have something returned that he feels is rightfully his.

Disagreement between the prophets of Allah. Oh dear.




    If Christ had glory with God before the world was, then obviously it is argued he must have existed before his

    Stress is often placed on Jesus' statement that he had glory with the Father. The J.W.'s in their New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures translate this verse as follows:

 "So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."1

But the Greek preposition "para" translated "with" in the A.V. and "alongside" in the N.W.T. also occurs in

John 1:6: "There was a man sent from {Greek: para} God, whose name was John."

If the preposition in John 17:5 requires the literal pre-existence of Christ, then likewise it requires the literal pre-existence of John the Baptist.

 It is interesting that the N.W.T. inconsistently translates John 1:6 as follows: "There arose a man that was sent forth as a representative of God: his name was John." There is no hint of pre-existence here.

    How could Jesus have glory with his Father "before the world was" if he did not literally pre-exist?

 An illustration is helpful: An architect sees and knows the beautiful details of his proposed construction before the site is prepared, or the foundation-stone laid. But God is the great Architect and in His divine plan, Christ was "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8) -

the chief cornerstone "foreordained before the foundation of the world". (1 Peter 1:20).

 The building will duly be fitly framed together (Eph. 2:21) to constitute its part in the "kingdom prepared . . . from the foundation of the world." (Matt. 25:34).

 Christ was "foreordained", but not formed until born of the virgin Mary in the days of Herod the king. Likewise, the glory he had with his Father was in the divine plan of the great Architect. It was the subject of prophetic testimony "when it {the Spirit of Christ} testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow." (1 Peter 1:11 cf. John 12:41).

    Scripture speaks as if others pre-existed, as well as Christ. Consider the following:
         1. Of believers, Paul wrote:
               1. "Whom he did foreknow." (Rom. 8:29).
               2. "He had afore prepared {note the past tense} unto glory." (Rom. 9:23 cf. 2 Tim. 1:9).
               3. "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world." (Eph. 1:4).

        Of Jeremiah, the LORD said: "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer. 1:5).
      But who would contend for the pre-existence of Jeremiah and other believers because the language employed states that God knew them before they were born? Similarly, the language of John 17:5 must be understood in terms of this background. Unless the principle is recognized that God "calleth those things which be not as though they were" (Rom. 4:17), confusion will result in Biblical interpretation, as it does with the wrested pre-existence interpretation given to this passage in John's gospel.

    The context is sufficiently clear that Christ is not "Very God". His power and authority are derived, not innate: "As thou hast given him {Christ} power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." (John 17:2).


Posted By: Squeegie
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 5:43am
Stan, your examples are references to God's ability to foreknow people, events, circumstances based upon his vantage point from eternity. God is able to foreknow things because he can see all of history at once instead of from our viewpoint which must view history as it happens. You are really reaching with your conclusions.

As to the John the baptist comparison, the context tells you how the word para is to be used. If you wish to confuse that element of the statement, you may cause it to say whatever you wish. And obviously you have.


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 6:27am
 
  Which brings me back to the points i've made before.
 
 Muslims believe no man has seen God. Christians also believe no man has seen God (that is the Father).
 
 Yet who does the prophet see in Isiaiah 6.5 below
 
 "And I said: Woe is me, because I have held my peace; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people that hath unclean lips, and I have seen with my eyes the King the Lord of host."   Hebrew translation
 
Also
 
"He answered and said: 'Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods."  Dan 3:25 Hebrew translation
 
 
 


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by The_truth

 

  Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

  In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

  How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a)  Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

  God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

  How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a)  Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

  How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

(b)  Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a)  Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

(b)  Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

  When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b)  Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

  How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

  When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a)  One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

   How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

(b)  Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

  In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha,   King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year  (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

  How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

  Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? 

(a)  Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

  How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

  How many were the children of Azgad?

(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

  How many were the children of Adin?

(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

  How many were the children of Hashum?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

  How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

  Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

(a) 29,818 (Ezra)

(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)

  How many singers accompanied the assembly?

(a)  Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

  What was the name of King Abijah’s mother?

(a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)

(b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

  Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

(b)  No (Joshua 15:63)

  Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)

  Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

  Who was the father of Shealtiel?

(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)

(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)

  Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

(a) Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)

(b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

  Who was the father of Uzziah?

(a)   Joram (Matthew 1:8)

(b)  Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

  Who as the father of Jechoniah?

(a)   Josiah (Matthew 1:11)

(b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

  How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)

(b)  But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

  Who was the father of Shelah?

(a)  Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)

(b)  Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

  Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

(a)  Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

(b)  No(John 1:19-21)

  Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?

(a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)

(b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

  Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

(a)  One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). “And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.”

(b)  Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). “They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.”

  How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

(a)  By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

(b)  His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

  Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)

(b)  On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

  When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

(a)  Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

(b)  No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

  Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

(a)  Yes(Mark6:8)

(b)  No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

  Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

(b)  No (Luke 9:9)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)

(b)  No (John 1:32,33)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

(a)   Yes (John 1:32, 33)

(b)  No (Matthew 11:2)

  According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

(a)   “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

(b)  “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)

  When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 21:12)

(b)  No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17).

  The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

(a)   Yes. (Matthew 21:19)

(b)    No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)

  Did Judas kiss Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

(b)  No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

  What did Jesus say about Peter’s denial?

(a)   “The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times” (John 13:38).

(b)  “Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times” (Mark 14:30) . When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

  Did Jesus bear his own cross?

(a)   Yes (John 19:17)

(b)  No (Matthew 27:31-32)

  Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

(a)   Yes(Matthew27:50-5 1;MarklS:37-38)

(b)  No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

  Did Jesus say anything secretly?

(a)   No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

(b)  Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

  Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

(a)   On the cross (Mark 15:23)

(b)  In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

  The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Mark 15:32)

(b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

  Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

(a)   Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43)

(b)  No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, “I have not yet ascended to the Father” (John 20:17)

  When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?

(a)  Yes(Acts9:7)

(b)  No(Acts22:9)

  When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:14)

(b) No (Acts 9:7)

  Did the voice spell out on the spot what Paul’s duties were to be?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:16-18)

(b)  No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)

  When the Israelites dwelt in ****tin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?

(a)  Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)

(b)  Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)

  How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?

(a)  Seventy souls (Genesis 4&27)

(b)  Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)

  What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?

(a)  He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)

(b)  He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)

  How did Judas die?

(a)  After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

(b)  After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

  Why is the field called “Field of Blood”?

(a)  Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)

(b)  Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)

  Who is a ransom for whom?

(a)  “The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). “Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... “(I Timothy 2:5-6)

(b)  “The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright” (Proverbs 21:18)

  Is the law of Moses useful?

(a)  Yes. “All scripture is... profitable...” (2 Timothy 3:16)

(b)  No. “. . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... “(Hebrews 7:18)

  What was the exact wording on the cross?

(a)  “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

(b)   “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

(c)   “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

(d)   “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

  Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

(a)  Yes (Matthew 14:5)

(b)  No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

  Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

(a)  Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

(b)  Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke’s gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

  Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collector’s office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?

(a)  Matthew (Matthew 9:9)

(b)  Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

  Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

(a)  After (Mark 14:12-17)

(b)  Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate’s judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

  Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

(a)  Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

(b)  No. (John 12:27)

  In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did ‘he move away from his disciples to pray?

(a)  Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)

(b)  One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)

  Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?

(a)  Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)

(b)  Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)

  What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

(a)   “Certainly this man was innocent” (Luke 23:47)

(b)  “Truly this man was the Son of God” (Mark 15:39)

  When Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? ” in what language did he speak?

(a)   Hebrew: the words are “Eloi, Eloi …..“(Matthew 27:46)

(b)  Aramaic: the words are “Eloi, Eloi ….. “(Mark   15:34)

  According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

(a)   “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” (Luke 23:46)

(b)  "It is finished" (John 19:30).

  When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 8:5)

(b)  No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)

(a)   Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

(b)  Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

 

(a)   God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

(b)  Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

  Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?

(a)   No (John 3:13)

(b)  Yes. “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11)

  Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?

(a)   Abiathar (Mark 2:26)

(b)  Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)

  Was Jesus’ body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

(a)   Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)

(b)  No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices “so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus)” (Mark 16: 1)

  When did the women buy the spices?

(a)   After “the Sabbath was past” (Mark 16:1)

(b)  Before the Sabbath. The women “prepared spices and ointments.” Then, “on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment” (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

  At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

(a)   “Toward the dawn” (Matthew 28: 1)

(b)  “When the sun had risen” (Mark 16:2)

  What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

(a)   To anoint Jesus’ body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)

(b)   To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)

(c)  For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

  A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?

(a)   They saw that the stone was “Rolled back” (Mark 16:4) They found the stone “rolled away from the tomb” (Luke 24:2) They saw that “the stone had been taken away from the tomb” (John 20:1)

(b)  As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

  Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus’ body?

(a)   Yes. “A young man in a white robe” (Mark 16:5). “Two men ... in dazzling apparel” later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)

(b) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him” (John 20:2)

  When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

(a)   Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)

(b)   On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus’ body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him “Teacher.” Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me...” (John 20:11 to 17)

  What was Jesus’ instruction for his disciples?

(a)  “Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me” (Matthew 2 8: 10)  

(b)   “Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17)

  When did the disciples return to Galilee?

(a)   Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee “some doubted” (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist

(b)   After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them “during forty days” (Acts 1:3), and “charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... “(Acts 1:4)

  To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?

(a)   “To the Ishmaelites” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh” (Genesis 37:36)

  Who brought Joseph to Egypt?

(a)   The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then “took Joseph to Egypt” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “The Midianites had sold him in Egypt” (Genesis 37:36)

(c)   Joseph said to his brothers “I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt” (Genesis 45:4)

  Does God change his mind?

(a)   Yes. “The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I repent that I have made Saul King...” (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

(b)   No. God “will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent” (I Samuel 15:29)

(c)   Yes. “And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel” (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. “The Lord was sorry that he made man” (Genesis 6:6)

“I am sorry that I have made them” (Genesis 6:7)

ii. “And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people” (Exodus 32:14).

iii. (Lots of other such references).

  The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the magicians did the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat:

(a)   Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21)

(b)   The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

  Who killed Goliath?

(a)   David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)

(b)   Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)

  Who killed Saul?

(a)  “Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)

(b)   An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)

  Does every man sin?

(a)   Yes. “There is no man who does not sin” (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)

(b)   No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. “Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). “We should be called children of God; and so we are” (I John 3: 1). “He who loves is born of God” (I John 4:7). “No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God” (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! “If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (I John 1:8)

 Who will bear whose burden?

(a)   “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2)

(b)   “Each man will have to bear his own load” (Galatians 6:5)

  How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?

(a)   Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)

(b)   Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)

  Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

(a)   After his baptism, “the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days ... (Mark 1:12-13)

(b)   Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee - two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)

  Was baby Jesus’ life threatened in Jerusalem?

(a)   Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 23)

(b)   No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)

  When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?

(a)   They worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God” (Matthew 14:33)

(b)   “They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52)

 
IT ASTOUNISHING THAT YOU NEVER FOUND CONTRADICTIONS IN QURAN LIKE MUSLIMS ALWAYS DO THE ALWAYS FOUND THE BLACK SPOT ON THE WHITE CLOTH.
 
 

Absurdities

There are other errors which are statements or stories which simply make no sense at all, and put into question the integrity of the writer or writers of the Qur'an.

I4i: Man's Greatness

Sura 4:59 states,"Greater surely than the creation of man is the creation of the heavens and the earth; but most men know it not." This implies that greatness is only measured by size; that the mere vastness of the physical universe make it greater than man, an argument which would make a football of immensely greater value than the largest diamond. Our scripture tells us that Man's greatness lies not in his size, but in his relationship with God, that he is made in God's image, a claim which no other animate or inanimate object can make.

I4ii: Seven Earths

Sura 65:12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three).

I4iii: Jinns & Shooting stars:

Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37:6-10; 55:33-35; 67:5; & 72:6-9.

How are we to understand these suras? Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron-nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council? And how do we explain the fact that many of earths meteors come in showers which consequently travel in parallel paths. Are we to thus understand that these parallel paths imply that the devils are all lined up in rows at the same moment?

I4iv: Solomon's power over nature:

a.     Birds and ants
King Solomon was taught the speech of birds (sura 27:16) and the speech of ants (sura 27:18-19). In his battles, he used birds extensively to drop clay bricks on Abrah's army (sura 105:3-4), and marched them in military parades (sura 27:17). He also used them to bring him messages of powerful queens (sura 27:20-27).

Note: According to the historical record, Abrah's army was not defeated by bricks dropped on their head. Rather, they withdrew their attack on Mecca after smallpox broke out among the troops (Guillame, Islam, pgs.21ff).

b.     Jinn
The Jinn were forced to work for Solomon, making him whatever he pleased, such as palaces, statues, large dishes, and brass fountains (sura 34:11-13). A malignant jinn was even commissioned to bring the Queen of Sheba's throne in the twinkling of an eye (sura 27:38-44).

c.     Wind
The wind was subject to Solomon, travelling a month's journey both in the morning and in the evening (though the wisdom of its timing is somehow lost in translation) (sura
3:11; 21:81).

d.     Ants talk
The ants, upon seeing Solomon and his army arriving in their valley (and by implication recognizing who he was), talk among themselves to flee underground so as not to be crushed (sura 27:18).

I4v: Youth and dog sleep 309 years

Sura 18:9-25 tells the story of some youths (the exact number is debated) and a dog who sleep for 309 years with their eyes open and their ears closed (Note Yusuf Ali's attempts to delineate the exact time period of this story in footnote no.2365, and then concludes that it is merely a parable).

The object of this story is to show Allah's power to keep those who trust in him, including the dog, without food or water for as long as he likes.

I4vi: People become apes

In suras 2:65-66 and 7:163-167, Allah turns certain fishing people who break the Jewish sabbath into apes for their disobedience. Had Darwin read the Qur'an, his theory on evolution may have parallelled "Planet of the Apes" rather then the other way around.

I4vii: Sodom & Gomorrah turned upside-down

In suras 11:81-83; 15:74 the two cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are turned upside-down and rained upon with clay-like brimstone, upon whose surface were marked the destiny of the wicked people who lived there.

I4viii: Jacob's Smell & Sight:

In sura 12:93-96 Joseph sends his coat to his father as proof of his existence. But as the caravan leaves Egypt, Jacob, who is in Canaan smells Joseph, who is hundreds of miles away (aya 94). Then the coat, when it arrives, is placed over the face of his father Jacob and suddenly he receives his sight. Now we know why Andrew Lloyd Weber added the word "amazing" to the title of his musical, "Joseph's Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat."

I4ix: Night/Day/Sun/Moon are subject to man:

In sura 16:12-15 the day and night as well as the Sun and Moon are surprisingly all made subject to man. That would imply that we had control over the rotation of our planet, as well as the entire movement of our solar system (Yusuf Ali's explanation of this odd pronouncement in note no.2031 is rather interesting).

GO AT LEAST AND READ THE WHOLE SECTION BEFORE MAKING ANY STATE MENTS.
 
Gen 37:26 And Judah said to his brothers, What profit is there in putting our brother to death and covering up his blood?

Gen 37:27 Let us give him to these Ishmaelites for a price, and let us not put violent hands on him, for he is our brother, our flesh. And his brothers gave ear to him.

Gen 37:28 And some traders from Midian went by; so pulling Joseph up out of the hole, they gave him to the Ishmaelites for twenty bits of silver, and they took him to Egypt.

Gen 37:29 Now when Reuben came back to the hole, Joseph was not there; and giving signs of grief,

Gen 37:30 He went back to his brothers, and said, The child is gone; what am I to do?

Gen 37:31 Then they took Joseph's coat, and put on it some of the blood from a young goat which they had put to death,

Gen 37:32 And they took the coat to their father, and said, We came across this; is it your son's coat or not?

Gen 37:33 And he saw that it was, and said, It is my son's coat; an evil beast has put him to death; without doubt Joseph has come to a cruel end.

Gen 37:34 Then Jacob, giving signs of grief, put on haircloth, and went on weeping for his son day after day.

Gen 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters came to give him comfort, but he would not be comforted, saying with weeping, I will go down to the underworld to my son. So great was his father's sorrow for him.

Gen 37:36 And in Egypt the men of Midian gave him for a price to Potiphar, a captain of high position in Pharaoh's house.



-------------
THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by The_truth

 

  Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

  In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

  How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a)  Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

  God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

  How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a)  Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

  How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

(b)  Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a)  Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

(b)  Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

  When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b)  Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

  How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

  When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a)  One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

   How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

(b)  Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

  In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha,   King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year  (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

  How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

  Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? 

(a)  Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

  How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

  How many were the children of Azgad?

(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

  How many were the children of Adin?

(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

  How many were the children of Hashum?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

  How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

  Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

(a) 29,818 (Ezra)

(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)

  How many singers accompanied the assembly?

(a)  Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

  What was the name of King Abijah’s mother?

(a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)

(b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

  Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

(b)  No (Joshua 15:63)

  Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)

  Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

  Who was the father of Shealtiel?

(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)

(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)

  Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

(a) Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)

(b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

  Who was the father of Uzziah?

(a)   Joram (Matthew 1:8)

(b)  Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

  Who as the father of Jechoniah?

(a)   Josiah (Matthew 1:11)

(b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

  How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)

(b)  But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

  Who was the father of Shelah?

(a)  Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)

(b)  Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

  Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

(a)  Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

(b)  No(John 1:19-21)

  Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?

(a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)

(b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

  Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

(a)  One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). “And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.”

(b)  Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). “They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.”

  How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

(a)  By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

(b)  His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

  Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)

(b)  On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

  When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

(a)  Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

(b)  No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

  Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

(a)  Yes(Mark6:8)

(b)  No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

  Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

(b)  No (Luke 9:9)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)

(b)  No (John 1:32,33)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

(a)   Yes (John 1:32, 33)

(b)  No (Matthew 11:2)

  According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

(a)   “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

(b)  “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)

  When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 21:12)

(b)  No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17).

  The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

(a)   Yes. (Matthew 21:19)

(b)    No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)

  Did Judas kiss Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

(b)  No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

  What did Jesus say about Peter’s denial?

(a)   “The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times” (John 13:38).

(b)  “Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times” (Mark 14:30) . When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

  Did Jesus bear his own cross?

(a)   Yes (John 19:17)

(b)  No (Matthew 27:31-32)

  Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

(a)   Yes(Matthew27:50-5 1;MarklS:37-38)

(b)  No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

  Did Jesus say anything secretly?

(a)   No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

(b)  Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

  Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

(a)   On the cross (Mark 15:23)

(b)  In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

  The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Mark 15:32)

(b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

  Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

(a)   Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43)

(b)  No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, “I have not yet ascended to the Father” (John 20:17)

  When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?

(a)  Yes(Acts9:7)

(b)  No(Acts22:9)

  When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:14)

(b) No (Acts 9:7)

  Did the voice spell out on the spot what Paul’s duties were to be?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:16-18)

(b)  No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)

  When the Israelites dwelt in ****tin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?

(a)  Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)

(b)  Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)

  How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?

(a)  Seventy souls (Genesis 4&27)

(b)  Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)

  What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?

(a)  He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)

(b)  He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)

  How did Judas die?

(a)  After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

(b)  After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

  Why is the field called “Field of Blood”?

(a)  Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)

(b)  Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)

  Who is a ransom for whom?

(a)  “The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). “Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... “(I Timothy 2:5-6)

(b)  “The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright” (Proverbs 21:18)

  Is the law of Moses useful?

(a)  Yes. “All scripture is... profitable...” (2 Timothy 3:16)

(b)  No. “. . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... “(Hebrews 7:18)

  What was the exact wording on the cross?

(a)  “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

(b)   “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

(c)   “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

(d)   “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

  Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

(a)  Yes (Matthew 14:5)

(b)  No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

  Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

(a)  Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

(b)  Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke’s gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

  Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collector’s office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?

(a)  Matthew (Matthew 9:9)

(b)  Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

  Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

(a)  After (Mark 14:12-17)

(b)  Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate’s judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

  Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

(a)  Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

(b)  No. (John 12:27)

  In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did ‘he move away from his disciples to pray?

(a)  Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)

(b)  One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)

  Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?

(a)  Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)

(b)  Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)

  What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

(a)   “Certainly this man was innocent” (Luke 23:47)

(b)  “Truly this man was the Son of God” (Mark 15:39)

  When Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? ” in what language did he speak?

(a)   Hebrew: the words are “Eloi, Eloi …..“(Matthew 27:46)

(b)  Aramaic: the words are “Eloi, Eloi ….. “(Mark   15:34)

  According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

(a)   “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” (Luke 23:46)

(b)  "It is finished" (John 19:30).

  When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 8:5)

(b)  No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)

(a)   Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

(b)  Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

 

(a)   God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

(b)  Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

  Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?

(a)   No (John 3:13)

(b)  Yes. “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11)

  Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?

(a)   Abiathar (Mark 2:26)

(b)  Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)

  Was Jesus’ body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

(a)   Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)

(b)  No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices “so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus)” (Mark 16: 1)

  When did the women buy the spices?

(a)   After “the Sabbath was past” (Mark 16:1)

(b)  Before the Sabbath. The women “prepared spices and ointments.” Then, “on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment” (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

  At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

(a)   “Toward the dawn” (Matthew 28: 1)

(b)  “When the sun had risen” (Mark 16:2)

  What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

(a)   To anoint Jesus’ body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)

(b)   To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)

(c)  For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

  A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?

(a)   They saw that the stone was “Rolled back” (Mark 16:4) They found the stone “rolled away from the tomb” (Luke 24:2) They saw that “the stone had been taken away from the tomb” (John 20:1)

(b)  As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

  Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus’ body?

(a)   Yes. “A young man in a white robe” (Mark 16:5). “Two men ... in dazzling apparel” later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)

(b) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him” (John 20:2)

  When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

(a)   Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)

(b)   On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus’ body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him “Teacher.” Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me...” (John 20:11 to 17)

  What was Jesus’ instruction for his disciples?

(a)  “Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me” (Matthew 2 8: 10)  

(b)   “Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17)

  When did the disciples return to Galilee?

(a)   Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee “some doubted” (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist

(b)   After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them “during forty days” (Acts 1:3), and “charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... “(Acts 1:4)

  To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?

(a)   “To the Ishmaelites” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh” (Genesis 37:36)

  Who brought Joseph to Egypt?

(a)   The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then “took Joseph to Egypt” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “The Midianites had sold him in Egypt” (Genesis 37:36)

(c)   Joseph said to his brothers “I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt” (Genesis 45:4)

  Does God change his mind?

(a)   Yes. “The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I repent that I have made Saul King...” (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

(b)   No. God “will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent” (I Samuel 15:29)

(c)   Yes. “And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel” (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. “The Lord was sorry that he made man” (Genesis 6:6)

“I am sorry that I have made them” (Genesis 6:7)

ii. “And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people” (Exodus 32:14).

iii. (Lots of other such references).

  The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the magicians did the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat:

(a)   Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21)

(b)   The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

  Who killed Goliath?

(a)   David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)

(b)   Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)

  Who killed Saul?

(a)  “Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)

(b)   An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)

  Does every man sin?

(a)   Yes. “There is no man who does not sin” (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)

(b)   No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. “Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). “We should be called children of God; and so we are” (I John 3: 1). “He who loves is born of God” (I John 4:7). “No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God” (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! “If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (I John 1:8)

 Who will bear whose burden?

(a)   “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2)

(b)   “Each man will have to bear his own load” (Galatians 6:5)

  How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?

(a)   Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)

(b)   Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)

  Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

(a)   After his baptism, “the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days ... (Mark 1:12-13)

(b)   Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee - two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)

  Was baby Jesus’ life threatened in Jerusalem?

(a)   Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 23)

(b)   No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)

  When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?

(a)   They worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God” (Matthew 14:33)

(b)   “They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52)

 

2Sa 24:1 Again the wrath of the Lord was burning against Israel, and moving David against them, he said, Go, take the number of Israel and Judah.

2Sa 24:2 And the king said to Joab and the captains of the army, who were with him, Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan as far as Beer-sheba, and have all the people numbered, so that I may be certain of the number of the people.

2Sa 24:3 And Joab said to the king, Whatever the number of the people, may the Lord make it a hundred times as much, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it: but why does my lord the king take pleasure in doing this thing?

2Sa 24:4 But the king's order was stronger than Joab and the captains of the army. And Joab and the captains of the army went out from the king, to take the number of the children of Israel.

2Sa 24:5 And they went over Jordan, and starting from Aroer, from the town which is in the middle of the valley, they went in the direction of the Gadites, and on to Jazer;

2Sa 24:6 Then they came to Gilead, and to the land of the Hittites under Hermon; and they came to Dan, and from Dan they came round to Zidon,

2Sa 24:7 And to the walled town of Tyre, and to all the towns of the Hivites and the Canaanites: and they went out to the South of Judah at Beer-sheba.

 READ PROPERLY MY MUSLIM FRIEND THE SATAN WAS DESIGNING EVIL.
 

1Ch 21:1 Now Satan, designing evil against Israel, put into David's mind the impulse to take the number of Israel.

1Ch 21:2 And David said to Joab and the captains of the people, Now let all Israel, from Beer-sheba to Dan, be numbered; and give me word so that I may be certain of their number.

1Ch 21:3 And Joab said, May the Lord make his people a hundred times more in number than they are; but, my lord king, are they not all my lord's servants? why would my lord have this done? why will he become a cause of sin to Israel?

1Ch 21:4 But the king's word was stronger than Joab's. So Joab went out and went through all Israel and came to Jerusalem.

1Ch 21:5 And Joab gave David the number of all the people; all the men of Israel, able to take up arms, were one million, one hundred thousand men; and those of Judah were four hundred and seventy thousand men, able to take up arms.

1Ch 21:6 But Levi and Benjamin were not numbered among them, for Joab was disgusted with the king's order.

1Ch 21:7 And God was not pleased with this thing; so he sent punishment on Israel.

1Ch 21:8 Then David said to God, Great has been my sin in doing this; but now, be pleased to take away the sin of your servant, for I have done very foolishly.

1Ch 21:9 Then the word of the Lord came to Gad, David's seer, saying,

1Ch 21:10 Go and say to David, The Lord says, Three things are offered to you: say which of them you will have, so that I may do it to you.

1Ch 21:11 So Gad came to David and said to him, The Lord says, Take whichever you will:

1Ch 21:12 Three years when there will not be enough food; or three months of war, when you will go in flight before your haters, being in great danger of the sword; or three days of the sword of the Lord, disease in the land, and the angel of the Lord taking destruction through all the land of Israel. Now give thought to the answer I am to take back to him who sent me.

1Ch 21:13 And David said to Gad, This is a hard decision for me to make: let me come into the hands of the Lord, for great are his mercies: let me not come into the hands of men.

1Ch 21:14 So the Lord sent disease on Israel, causing the death of seventy thousand men.

1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel to Jerusalem for its destruction: and when he was about to do so, the Lord saw, and had regret for the evil, and said to the angel of destruction, It is enough; do no more. Now the angel of the Lord was by the grain-floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

1Ch 21:16 And David, lifting up his eyes, saw the angel of the Lord there between earth and heaven, with an uncovered sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the responsible men, clothed in haircloth, went down on their faces.

1Ch 21:17 And David said to God, Was it not I who gave the order for the people to be numbered? It is I who have done the sin and the great wrong; but these are only sheep; what have they done? let your hand, O Lord God, be lifted up against me and against my family, but not against your people to send disease on them.



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THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 9:39pm
First. What did Judas do with his reward money?
One biblical accounts says that he bought a field with the money.

Another says that he threw the money away in the temple and the priests bought the field.


Second. We have two differnt accounts for the demise of Judas.
One account says he hung himself.
Another says he fell headlong, burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.

Third in the NT where one gospel states a certain governor being in charge at the time of Jesus' birth, while another has Herod still alive, when Herod died 10 years prior to the governor being in office-wayyy to many contradictions and inconsistancies!
 
Fourthly There also seems to be two separate descriptions regarding Noah's ark. The one everyone refers to all of the time with a male and female of each species is always mentioned but also in Genesis it talks about taking a certain number of clean and unclean animals (I think they're referring to pigs, etc.) and it sounds like a completely different and contradictory statement.
Gosh there are just too many to list
The Quirinius issue regarding Jesus's birth where the Encyclopaedia Brittanica lists 136 different dates from Christian sources for the birth of Jesus! 136!!


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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 11:16pm
First. What did Judas do with his reward money?
One biblical accounts says that he bought a field with the money.

Another says that he threw the money away in the temple and the priests bought the field.
 
 The second account may be explained in that the ground was probably purchased by the bloodmoney alloted to Judas, the ground and surrounding are would have become a place which many would have no real desire to own. Yet prior to Judas hanging it would have been owned by someone. This was no doubt the same individual who recieved the payment by the officiates who delt with Jesus as a means of recompense.


Second. We have two differnt accounts for the demise of Judas.
One account says he hung himself.
Another says he fell headlong, burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.
 
 
 Not improbable that they both may have happened. He would have hung himself, and may have hanged there for perhaps a couple of days, or perhaps more. His decaying corspe in the midday head would have have lead to a deterioration of his body matter, which then wouldn'd be able to support its own weight from the neck. The spinal chord would be broken, so the head would separate from the boday rather easily, the body dropping to the ground would have his intestines pour out from his gut, being putrified inside for many many hours.
 
 The next ones i'll come back on , its very late here and my wife is looking at me shakin her head.
g'night.


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 30 December 2008 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by Damo808

First. What did Judas do with his reward money?
One biblical accounts says that he bought a field with the money.
 
 The next ones i'll come back on , its very late here and my wife is looking at me shakin her head.
g'night.
 
Im still waiting Damoo u replied to my other threads but seem to be avoiding this thread especially last 2 questions, very cleverly aswell! hmm


-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 31 December 2008 at 9:02am
Originally posted by The_truth

Originally posted by Damo808

First. What did Judas do with his reward money?
One biblical accounts says that he bought a field with the money.
 
 The next ones i'll come back on , its very late here and my wife is looking at me shakin her head.
g'night.
 
Im still waiting Damoo u replied to my other threads but seem to be avoiding this thread especially last 2 questions, very cleverly aswell! hmm
 
Third in the NT where one gospel states a certain governor being in charge at the time of Jesus' birth, while another has Herod still alive, when Herod died 10 years prior to the governor being in office-wayyy to many contradictions and inconsistancies!
 
 Although scholars generally believe that Christ was born some years before A.D. 1, the historical evidence is too sketchy to allow a definitive dating" (Doggett 1992, 579). According to the Gospel of Matthew (2:1,16) Herod the Great was alive when Jesus was born, and ordered the Massacre of the Innocents in response to his birth. Blackburn & Holford-Strevens fix Herod's death shortly before Passover in 4 BC (2003, 770), and say that those who accept the story of the Massacre of the Innocents sometimes associate the star that led the Biblical Magi with the planetary conjunction of 15 September 7 BC or Halley's comet of 12 BC; even historians who do not accept the Massacre accept birth under Herod as a tradition older than the written gospels (p. 776).

The Gospel of Luke (1:5) states that John the Baptist was at least conceived, if not born, under Herod, and that Christ was conceived while John's mother was in the sixth month of her pregnancy (1:26). Luke's Gospel also states that Christ was born during the reign of Augustus and while Quirinius was the governor of Syria (2:1-2), . Blackburn and Holford-Strevens (2003, 770) indicate Quirinius' governorship of Syria began in AD 6, which is incompatible with conception in 4 BC, and say that "St. Luke raises greater difficulty....Most critics therefore discard Luke" (p. 776). Some scholars rely on John's Gospel to place Christ's birth in c.18 BC (Blackburn and Holford-Strevens 2003, 776
 
 
 But lets be clear, Most Christians  do not hold the Bible to be historically accurate with the precise date of Jesus birth no-one knows for sure. Thats the difference between  something we believe to be inspired by God, which differentiates us to Muslims who believe the Quran was authored by God Himself, when similar irregularities are glaringly obvious.
 
Fourthly There also seems to be two separate descriptions regarding Noah's ark. The one everyone refers to all of the time with a male and female of each species is always mentioned but also in Genesis it talks about taking a certain number of clean and unclean animals (I think they're referring to pigs, etc.) and it sounds like a completely different and contradictory statement.
 
 If its contradictory, then spell out where the contradiction is.
 
Gosh there are just too many to list
The Quirinius issue regarding Jesus's birth where the Encyclopaedia Brittanica lists 136 different dates from Christian sources for the birth of Jesus! 136!!
 
 For someone who has problems with with the above, then i'm surprised that you invest so much faith in the Quran, as even with all the claims of perfection bestowed apon it, one isn't too pressed to find some of the biggest blunders of any book contained within. Especially a book which depicts only one lifetime in comparrison to a book which comprises many millenia.
 


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 31 December 2008 at 9:51pm
But lets be clear, Most Christians  do not hold the Bible to be historically accurate with the precise date of Jesus birth no-one knows for sure.
 
Humbug! So your saying that Christmas is just a made up "pagan day" which has no relavance in Christianity? I knew you was the incarnation of Scrooge himself! You have destroyed the happiness of many children now! Don't you think they should be told the truth? Oh sorry i forgot most of the people who celebrate christmas don't even believe in Christianity or know anything of it's teachings! Oh wait up! most people who are counted as Christians in the world don't even practice or believe in Christianity thats why churches are literally empty every sunday unlike Mosques which are always packed! Hmm wonder why...
 
 
If its contradictory, then spell out where the contradiction is.
 
If you don't know just say so!It is because you have too much pride in your heart to admit it?
 
 
 For someone who has problems with with the above, then i'm surprised that you invest so much faith in the Quran, as even with all the claims of perfection bestowed apon it, one isn't too pressed to find some of the biggest blunders of any book contained within. Especially a book which depicts only one lifetime in comparrison to a book which comprises many millenia.
 
Oh you want a comparison of the Bible and the Quran do you? No problem you will find this article very interesting i promise:
 
The Bible

Old Testament


There exists today a number of different versions in the ancient Hebrew language of the Jewish Book called the Torah [Law] and this is usually referred to in Christianity as The Old Testament. Naturally, there have been many different translations to a great number of languages over the centuries and one could not expect them to be identical in text or meaning. What we have in English today still remains somewhat similar to large amounts of these older documents.

New Testament

There are also different versions of the Gospel or what is commonly called The New Testament in the Koine Greek language and Latin and these also have many translations to even other languages. Even amongst the English translations there are great differences. To mention two very clear differences for example; the Catholic Bible [c. 325 A.D] contains 73 books in total, while the Protestant Bible contains only 66 books, and although the newer (Protestant version) was taken from the Catholic Bible even then these books do not match completely with each other. There is no common denominator for any of the many different versions of the Bible.

Dead Sea Scrolls

There have been a number of scrolls and parchments found in places surrounding what we call the "Holy Land" over the centuries, not the least of which are those often referred to as the "Dead Sea Scrolls" or as they are known to the scholars "Wadi Qumran Scrolls." These were discovered in the last century around 1930 and have been proven to be very ancient and could well be older than any other extant manuscripts. Much of what has been translated from these scrolls is similar to some of the oldest manuscripts, but there are still very important differences worthy of note. We would like to recommend some important reading on this topic at the end of this paper.



The Quran

Quran Means "Recitation"

The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writing about the Quran has been preserved in museums throughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).

Only One Version - Arabic

There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.

Memorized by Millions - Entirely

The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Recitation" just as it came to Muhammad (peace be upon him) from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?

Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized

All Muslims have memorized a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learning the Quran in Arabic as a second language.

God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran

The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad (peace be upon him) to show that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad (peace be upon him) for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (i.e.; surah At-Tahrim and surah Abasa).

Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).

Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly

The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic language: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existence, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.

Quran Challenges Readers

The Quran makes the clear challenge, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate its beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challenge for the unbelievers to consider;

"If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions."



And yet, another challenge offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.

Scientific Miracles in Quran

The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).

[Watch videos of world's top scientists commenting on the "Miracle of Science in Quran"]

http://scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php - ScienceIslam.com/scientists_quran.php
 


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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 31 December 2008 at 9:53pm
Comparison of Bible And Quran- A very interesting and thought provoking article

Dr. Gary Miller-
 
with Commentary by
 
Yusuf Estes - who is a former Christian Chaplin

Bible is Collection of Writings

Quran is Recitation From God to Muhammad (peace be upon him)

Whereas, The Bible is a collection of writings by many different authors, the Quran is a dictation (or recitation). The speaker in the Quran - in the first person - is God Almighty (Allah) talking directly to man. In the Bible you have many men writing about God and you have in some places the word of God speaking to men and still in other places you have some men simply writing about history or personal exchanges of information to one another (ex: Epistle of John 3). The Bible in the English King James Version consists of 66 small books. About 18 of them begin by saying: This is the revelation God gave to so and so… The rest make no claim as to their origin. You have for example the beginning of the book of Jonah which begins by saying: The word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Elmitaeh saying… quote and then it continues for two or three pages.

Compare this to the beginning of the Book of "Luke" begins by saying: “In as much as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, (2) Just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, (3) It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, (4) That you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.


We see the author of the Book of "Luke" saying essentially, "Many people have written about things, it seems fitting for me to do so too.” "Luke" says it seems to him that as long as others are taking in hand to write something about it, even though they were eye witnesses to the whole thing, he feels that even though he was not, he still has "perfect understanding of all things from the very first."


Therefore this is only a letter from one person to another, neither of whom knew Jesus (peace be upon him) nor were eyewitnesses to any of what had taken place.


[Y. Estes]



If you compare that to one of the four accounts of the life of Jesus, Luke begins by saying: “many people have written about this man, it seems fitting for me to do so too”. That is all… no claim of saying “ these words were given to me by God here they are for you it is a revelation”, there is no mention of this.

"Bible" is NOT in the Bible

The Bible does not contain self-reference, that is, the word 'Bible' is not in the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible talk about itself. Some scriptures are sometimes pointed to in the Bible, say: Here where it talks about itself, but we have to look closely. 2nd Timothy 3:16 is the favorite which reads: “All scripture is inspired of God” and there are those who would say, here is where the Bible it talks about itself, it says it is inspired of God, all of it. But if you read the whole sentence, you read that this was a letter wrote by Paul to Timothy and the entire sentence says to Timothy: “Since you were a young man you have studied the holy scriptures, all scriptures inspired by God” and so on… When Timothy was a young man the New Testament did not exist, the only thing that stems he was talking about are scriptures – which are only a portion of the Bible - from before that time. It could not have meant the whole Bible.

Bible Curses Church Fathers Who REMOVED Book of Revelations

There is at the end of the Bible a verse which says:

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book (Revelations): if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book:


And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, god shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


[Y. Estes]



“Let anyone who takes away from this book or adds to this book be cursed”. This too is sometimes pointed to me saying: Here is where it sums itself as a whole. But look again and you will see that when it says: Let no one change this book, it is talking about that last book, #66 (or is it #73 in the Catholic Bible?), the Book of Revelation. It has too, because any reference will tell you that the Book of Revelation was written before certain other parts of the Bible were written. It happens today to be stacked at the end, but there are other parts that came after, so it can not be referring to the entire book.

(Incidentally, according to different manuscripts much older than the King James Version, there are different words at the end of the Book of Revelation, so how would we resolve that matter? - Y.E.)

Note: The Book of Revelation was taken out of the Bible several times and then replaced and then taken out and replaced according to various Church Councils throughout Church history. Guess the Church Fathers didn't read the curse at the end of the book?

Whose Word Is It?

It is an extreme position held only by some Christian groups that the Bible – in its entirety - cover to cover is the revealed word of God in every word, but they do a clever thing when they mention this, or make this claim. They will say that the Bible in its entirety is the word of God; inerrant (no mistakes) in the original writings.

So if you go to the Bible and point out some mistakes that are in it you are going to be told: Those mistakes were not there in the original manuscript, they have crept in so that we see them there today.

They are going on problem in that position. There is a verse in the Bible Isaiah 40:8 which in fact is so well known that some Bibles printed it on the inside front cover as an introduction and it says : “ The grass weathers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever”. Here is a claim in the Bible that the word of God will stand forever, it will not be corrupted, it won't be lost. So if today you find a mistake in the Bible you have two choices. Either that promise was false that when God said my word wont fade away, he was mistaken, or the portion which has the mistake in it was not a part of the word of God in the first place, because the promise was that it would be safeguarded, it would not be corrupted.

Are There Mistakes?

I have suggested many times that there are mistakes in the Bible and the accusation comes back very quickly: Show me one. Well there are hundreds. If you want to be specific I can mention few. You have for example at 2nd Samuel 10:18 a description of a war fought by David saying that he killed 7000 men and that he also killed 40000 men on horsebacks. In 1st Chronicles 19 it mentions the same episode saying that he killed 70000 men and the 40000 men were not on horsebacks, they were on foot. The point is what is the difference between the pedestrian and not is very fundamental.

How Did Judas Die?

Matthew 27:5 says that Judas Iscariot when he died he hung himself. Acts 1 says that, no he jumped off a cliff head first. If you study Logic very soon you will come in your course to what they call an “undecidable propositions” or “meaningless sentences” or statements that can not be decided because there is no contextual false. One of the classic examples sited is something called the Effeminates paradox. This man was Cretan and he said “Cretans always lie”, now was that statement true or false? If he was a Cretan and he says that they always lie is he lying? If he is not lying then he is telling the truth then the Cretans don’t always lie ! You see it can not be true and it can not be false, the statement turns back on itself. It is like saying “What I am telling you right now is a lie” would you believe that or not? You see the statement has no true content. It can not be true and it can not be false. If it is true it is always false. If it is false it is also true.

Well in the Bible at Titus 1:12 the writer is Paul and he is talking about the Cretans. He says that one of their own men – a prophet - said “Cretans always lie” and he says that what this man says is true. It is a small mistake, but the point is that it is a human mistake, you don’t find that if you carefully examine the true content of that statement. It can not be a true statement.

Who is the Author?

Now I come back to the Quran, and as I mentioned the speaker in the Quran is - in the first person - is God. The book claims throughout that it is the word of God. It names itself 70 times as the Quran. It talks about its own contents. It has self-reference. The Quran states in the first Surah after Fatiha that “This is the book, there is no doubt in it, it is a guidance for those who are conscious of God” and so on and so on… It begins that way and continues that way stressing that. And there is one very amazing statement in the Quran when you come to the fourth Surah 82nd Ayah which says to those who say Quran is something else than the word of God. It challenges them saying: “Have they not considered the Quran, if it came from someone other than God they will find in it many mistakes”. Some of you are students, would you dare to hand in a paper after you completed a research work or something at the bottom you put down there “You won't find mistakes in this”. Would you dare to challenge your professor that way? Well the Quran does that. It is telling: If you really think you know where this came from then starts looking for mistakes because you won't find any. Another interesting thing the Quran does is that it quotes all its critics. There has never - in hundreds of years - ever been some suggestion as to where that book came from but that the Quran does not already mention that objection and reply to it. Many times you will find the Ayah saying something like: Do they say such and such and so, say to them such and such and so. In every case there is a reply. More than that the Quran claims that the evidence of its origin is in itself, and that if you look at this book you will be convinced.

Difference of Authority

So the difference in Christianity and Islam comes down to a difference of authority and appeal to authority. The Christian wants to appeal to the Bible and the Muslim wants to appeal to the Quran. You can not stop by saying: This is true because me book say it is, and somebody else would say something else is true because my book says differently, you can not stop at that point, and the Quran does not. The Christians may point to some words that it is recorded Jesus said and say this proves my point. But the Muslim does not simply open his book and say: No, no the Quran says this, because the Quran does not simply deny something the Bible says and say something else instead. The Quran takes the form of a rebuttal, it is a guidance as the opening says (Huda lil mutakeen). So that for every suggestion that the Christian may say: My Bible say such and such, the Quran will not simply say: No that is not true, it will say: Do they say such and such then ask them such and such. You have for example the Ayah that compares Jesus and Adam. There are those who may say that Jesus must have been God (Son of God) because he had no father. He had a woman who was his mother, but there was no human father. It was God that gave him life, so he must have been God’s son. The Quran reminds the Christian in one short sentence to remember Adam - who was his father ? - and in fact, who was his mother ? He did not have a father either and in fact he did not have a mother, but what does that make him? So that the likeness of Adam is the likeness of Jesus, they were nothing and then they became something; that they worship God.

Quran Invites - Not Demands

So that the Quran does not demand belief - the Quran invites belief, and here is the fundamental difference. It is not simply delivered as: Here is what you are to believe, but throughout the Quran the statements are always: Have you O man thought of such and such, have you considered so and so. It is always an invitation for you to look at the evidence; now what do you believe?

Special Pleading of the Bible

The citation of the Bible very often takes the form of what is called in Argumentation: Special Pleading. Special Pleading is when implications are not consistent. When you take something and you say: Well that must mean this, but you don’t use the same argument to apply it to something else. To give an example, I have seen it in publications many times, stating that Jesus must have been God because he worked miracles. In other hand we know very well that there is no miracle ever worked by Jesus that is not also recorded in the Old Testament as worked by one of the prophets. You had amongst others, Elijah, who is reported to have cured the leper, raise the dead boy to life and to have multiplied bread for the people to eat - three of the most favorite miracles cited by Jesus. If the miracles worked by Jesus proved he was God, why don’t they prove Elijah was God ? This is Special Pleading, if you see what I mean. The implications are not consistent. If this implies that then in that case it must also imply the same thing. We have those who would say Jesus was God because he was taken up in the heaven. But the Bible also says a certain Einah did not die he was taken up into the heaven by God. Whether it is true or not, who knows, but the point is if Jesus being taken up proves he is God, why does not it prove Einah was God? The same thing happened to him.

Clear Parts & Difficult Parts of Bible

I wrote to a man one time, who wrote a book about Christianity and I had some of the objections I mentioned to you now. And his reply to me was that I am making matters difficult to myself, that there are portions in the Bible that are crystal clear and that there are portions that are difficult, and that my problem was that I am looking at the difficult part instead of the clear parts. The problem is that this is an exercise in self deception - why are some parts clear and some parts difficult? It is because somebody decided what this clearly means, now that makes this very difficult. To give you an example, John Chapter 14 a certain man said to Jesus: Show us God, and Jesus said: If you have seen me you have seen God. Now without reading on the Christian will say: See Jesus claimed to be God, he said if you have seen me you have seen God. If that is crystal clear then you have a difficult portion when you go back just a few pages to Chapter 5 when another man came to Jesus and said show us God and he said you have never seen God you have never heard his voice. Now what did he mean there if on the other occasion he meant that he was God? Obviously you have made matters difficult by deciding what the first one meant. If you read on in Chapter 14 you will see what he went on to say. He was saying the closest you are going to seeing God are the works you see me doing.

Bible Does Not Claim Jesus Claimed to Be Son of God

It is a fact that the words “son of God” are not found on the lips of Jesus anywhere in the first three Gospel accounts, he was always calling himself the Son of Man. And it is a curious form of reasoning that I have seen so often that it is established from Bible that he claimed to be God because - look how the Jews reacted. They will say for example he said such and such and the Jews said he is blaspheming, he claimed to be God and they tried to stone him. So they argue that he must have been claiming to be God because look ! - the Jews tried to kill him. They said that’s what he was claiming. But the interesting thing is that all the evidence is then built on the fact that a person is saying: I believed that Jesus was the son of God because the Jews who killed him said that’s what he used to say ! His enemies used to say that, so he must have said it, this is what it amounts to. In other hand we have the words of Jesus saying he would keep the law, the law of Moses and we have the statement in the Bible, why did the Jews kill him ? Because he broke the law of Moses. Obviously the Jews misunderstood him, if he promised he would keep the law, but they killed him because he broke the law, they must have misunderstood him, or lied about him.

Writers of Bible - Out of Context

When I talk about the Bible and quote various verses here and there I am often accused of putting things out of context, to say you have lifted something out of what it was talking about and given it a meaning. I don’t want to respond to the accusation as such, but it doesn’t seem to occur to many people that perhaps those who wrote portions of the Bible in the first place were guilty of the same thing. Maybe they – some of those writers - believed a certain thing and in order to prove it quoted from their scriptures – the Old Testament, the Hebrew writings - quoted out of context to prove their point. There are examples of that kind of thing. In Matthew 2 it said that a king wanted to kill the young child Jesus so he with his family went to Egypt, and they stayed there until that king died, and then they came back.

When the writer of Matthew, whoever he was, because the name Matthew won't be found in the book of Matthew; when he described this event saying that he came back out of Egypt, he said: “ This was to fulfill a prophecy which is written” and then he quotes Hosea Chapter 11 “Out of Egypt I called my Son”. So he said because Jesus went to Egypt and then came back out of Egypt and we have this passage in the Hebrew scriptures “out of Egypt I called my son” Jesus must have been the son of God. If you look and see what he was quoting, Hosea 11:1 he quotes the second half of a complete sentence, the complete sentence reads: “When Israel was young I loved him and out of Egypt I called my son”. Israel the nation was considered as the son of God. Moses was told to go to Pharaoh and say to him: If you touch that nation of people, you touch my son; warning him, warning Pharaoh: don’t touch that nation, calling the nation “the son of God”. So that this is the only thing talked about in Hosea 11:1. “Out of Egypt I called my son” can only refer to the nation of Israel. I mentioned this point some months ago here in another talk, to which a young lady with us objected that Israel is a symbolic name for Jesus. You will have a hard time finding that anywhere in the Bible because it isn’t there. You can take an index of the Bible and lookup the word “Israel” everywhere the word occurs and you will find no where in any place that you can connect the word Israel with Jesus. But never mind - suppose it is true, read on, the second verse says “and after that he kept on worshipping Bal”, because this is what the Israelites were guilty of, very often they kept falling back into Idol worshipping. So if that “Israel” really meant Jesus and it means that Jesus is the son of God that came out of Egypt they must also mean that Jesus from time to time used to bow down to that idol Bal. You have to be consistent, and follow through on what it says. So the point is whoever wrote Matthew and Chapter 2 was trying to prove a point by quoting something out of context, and he undid himself, because if you follow through on it, it can not be so.

Quran Has Internal Evidences

Now I can come back to the claim the Quran makes that it has internal evidence of its origin. There are many ways that you can look at this. As one example, if I single out somebody here and say: You know, I know your father - he is going to doubt that, he has never seen me with his father. He would say, how does he look like, is he tall short does he wear glasses? And so on, and if I give him the right answers pretty soon he will get convinced, “Oh yes, you did meet him”. If you apply the same kind of thinking when you look at the Quran, here is a book that says it came from the one who was there when the universe began. So you should be asking that one: So tell me something that proves it. Tell me something that shows me you must have been there when the universe was beginning. You will find in two different Ayahs the statement that all the creation began from a single point, and from this point it is expanding. In 1978 they gave the Noble prize to two people who proved that that's the case. It is the big bang origin of the universe. It was determined by the large radio receivers that they have for the telephone companies which were sensitive enough to pick up the transmissions from satellites and it kept finding background noise that they could not account for. Until the only explanation came to be, it is the left over energy from that original explosion which fits in exactly as would be predicted by the mathematical calculation of what would be this thing if the universe began from a single point and exploded outwards. So they confirmed that, but in 1978.
 
Centuries before that here is the Quran saying the heavens and the earth in the beginning they were one piece and split and says in another Ayah : “of the heavens we are expanding it”.

Quran Has Exact Accuracy

Let me tell you about a personal investigation, it occurred to me that there are a number of things you can find in the Quran that give evidence to its origin – internal evidence. If the Quran is dictated from a perfect individual; it originates with God, then there should not be any wasted space, it should be very meaningful. There should be nothing that we don’t need that you can cut off, and it should not be missing anything. And so that everything in there should really be there for a specific purpose. And I got to thinking about the Ayah which I mentioned before, it says, the likeness of Jesus is the likeness of Adam. It is an equation, it uses the Arabic word (mithel), it says Jesus, Adam, equal. You go to the index of the Quran, you look up the name ISA it is in the Quran 25 times, you lookup the name Adam it is there 25 times. They are equal, through scattered references but 25 of each. Follow that through and you will find that in the Quran there are 8 places were an Ayah says something is like something else, using this (Mithel), you will find in every case and take both sides of it whatever that word is look it up in the index and it will be lets say 110 times and lookup the other word and it will be said to be equal to the same 110. That is quite a project of co-ordination if you try to write a book that way yourself. So that everywhere you happened to mention that such and such is like such and such that then you check your index, filing system, or your IBM punch cards or whatever, to make sure that in this whole book you mentioned them both the same number of times. But that’s what you will find in the Quran.

Quran Provides Reason

What I am talking about is built on a thing that is called in Logic: Use and Mention of a Word. When you use a word, you are using its meaning. When you mention a word, you are talking about the symbol without the meaning. For example, if I say Toronto is a big city - I used the word Toronto as I meant this place Toronto is a big city. But if I say to you Toronto has 7 letters, I am not talking about this place Toronto, I am talking about this word - Toronto. So, the revelation is above reasoning, but it is not above reason. That is to say we are more apt not to find in the Quran something that is unreasonable, but we may find something that we would have never figured out for ourselves.

Unique Word Refers to Itself in Quran

The author of this sentence said if this book came from someone besides God then you will find in it many Ikhtalafan (inconsistencies). The word Ikhtilaf is found many times in the Quran. But the word Ikhtalafan is only found once in the Quran. So there are not many Ikhtilafan in the Quran, there is only one - where the sentence is mentioned. So you see how things are put together perfectly. It has been suggested to mankind: Find a mistake. Man could not get hold of a mistake, and he is very clever, because this sentence could also mean: Find many Iktilafan and so he quickly goes to the index to see if he can find many of them and there is only one... Sorry clever person.

[end of Dr. Gary Miller and Yusuf Estes]

Bible And Quran - Originally Both From Allah

Conclusion: Both the Bible and the Quran have come to us by way of Almighty God, then through His angel Gabriel and then to the prophets (peace be upon them). However, when the next step comes into play (that of the human beings faithfully transmitting it on to others and future generations) we find out that Allah has only preserved His Last and Final Revelation for all times. And He certainly did not need the humans to do that.

Respect For Holy Books

Muslims should respect the Bible because it does still contain some of the original teachings of Allah. But there is no need to go to Bible classes or purchase one to read to try to learn about what our purpose is here in this life. The Quran makes it clear that Allah has indeed, perfected our "way of life" for us and has conferred on us His favor and has chosen for us to submit to Him in Islam.

We would like to suggest to the non-Muslims to consider obtaining a Quran (order one free through our site if you like) and then investigate for themselves what the Quran is really all about and what it might mean to them in their lives.

[Free Quran available at: http://www.allahsquran.com/goodies/free_quran.php - www.AllahsQuran.com ]

Final comment from Yusuf Estes:

I would like to state that after years of studying the Bible and then learning the Arabic language to read the Quran as it was originally recited to Muhammad (peace be upon him) by the angel Gabriel, I have come to an amazing conclusion. It seems to me that the Bible and the Quran are most definitely from the exact same source and they compliment each other very nicely. In fact, it appears that the Bible does not contradict the Quran, except in the very same places where the Bible contradicts itself.
 
Source: http://www.bibleislam.com/bible_vs_quran.php - http://www.bibleislam.com/bible_vs_quran.php


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[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 01 January 2009 at 9:05am
 Truth.. about 3 maybe 4 times already i've aksed you to debate... But you've evaded such a proposition now in ech case. instead posting long long portions of other peoples opinions when really anyone can do that... i could start a thread right now which could take several pages of other people work critical of the Quran, and your prophet. To me thats nothing origina or remotely like debate and certainly not inter religious diologue. To me thats actively stifeling debate.
 I'm not expecting you to agree with everything i say... but at least it gives both individuals deeper incite to each point in question.  


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: The_truth
Date Posted: 01 January 2009 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 Truth.. about 3 maybe 4 times already i've aksed you to debate... But you've evaded such a proposition now in ech case. instead posting long long portions of other peoples opinions when really anyone can do that... i could start a thread right now which could take several pages of other people work critical of the Quran, and your prophet. To me thats nothing origina or remotely like debate and certainly not inter religious diologue. To me thats actively stifeling debate.
 I'm not expecting you to agree with everything i say... but at least it gives both individuals deeper incite to each point in question.  
Why don't u read it with an open heart instead of disregarding it? I've read everything u send me and i've also read opposing arguments to Islam! I always look at both sides of the coin not just one! Read the articles with an open heart and you will find the truth i promise you!The article was done by a former christian chaplin so he knows what he is talking about!Of course I am here for debate and there's nothing wrong with me pasting relavant information as long as it is relevant to the topic and does'nt divert elsewhere!

-------------
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)


Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 9:28am
 
Originally posted by Damo808

 Truth.. about 3 maybe 4 times already i've aksed you to debate... But you've evaded such a proposition now in ech case. instead posting long long portions of other peoples opinions when really anyone can do that... i could start a thread right now which could take several pages of other people work critical of the Quran, and your prophet. To me thats nothing origina or remotely like debate and certainly not inter religious diologue. To me thats actively stifeling debate.
 I'm not expecting you to agree with everything i say... but at least it gives both individuals deeper incite to each point in question.  
Originally posted by The_truth

Why don't u read it with an open heart instead of disregarding it? I've read everything u send me and i've also read opposing arguments to Islam! I always look at both sides of the coin not just one! Read the articles with an open heart and you will find the truth i promise you!The article was done by a former christian chaplin so he knows what he is talking about!Of course I am here for debate and there's nothing wrong with me pasting relavant information as long as it is relevant to the topic and does'nt divert elsewhere!
 
 I do read... Though i can't say i agree with it all, but actively not agreeing requires time i don't always have to reply to each point in long lenghty post. Thats why discussion on a point by point basis is always more beneficial to both parties as both can agree.. or agree to dis-agree on any given point of view. There is nothing in a long post which can't be broken down to dissect each point in greater detail. Surely you agree ?


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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5



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