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Adultery (Definition & Punishment in Isla

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Topic: Adultery (Definition & Punishment in Isla
Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Subject: Adultery (Definition & Punishment in Isla
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 10:52am
Hi all... wasallammuaikum....
 
I want to ask sensitive questions, about the definition of adultery and what is the punishment of adultery in Islam. 
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam



Replies:
Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 12:27pm
Adultery (Zina) in Islam is for a Muslim man to have sexual relations with other than his wife, or a Muslim woman to have sexual relations with other than her husband
 
It is one of the major sins in Islam
 
For more details, you may wish to check this answer from IOL:
 
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503548032 - How Islam Views Adultery
 
 


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 2:03am
Hi Al-Cordoby.... wasallamuaikum...
 
Thanks for your explaination. btw, I once read the biography of Muhammad that he had sex with his wife's slave. His wife was so angry and told this shameful story to other wives and friends. The slave's name is Mariah the coptic girl.  
 
Can this be categorised as adultery or zina???
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 2:16am
When Islam was revealed, slavery was the norm in most countries, like today you find that (democracy) is the norm in most countries around the world
 
At the time, slavery was a worldwide common social phenomenon; it was much older than Islam
 
Mariyah was a sent as a gift to the Prophet from the ruler of Egypt (Al-Muqawqis). At that time, accepting a slave as a gift was permissible, but today slavery has been abolished, which is what Islam encouraged people to do, as this is no longer applied.
 
Islam liberated slaves in gradual stages, and one of the ways for their liberation is through marriage.
 
For more background:
 
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544596 - Status of Slave Women in Islam  
 


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 4:26am
 
I believe Islam is given by Allah to bring human beings to the correct way.
But I cannot understand why Allah allowed Muhammad to follow the wrong way.
 
Instead of showing the correct way, Prophet Muhammad followed the wrong way (lie to his wife and then had sex with Mariah). I believe that Prophet Moses had delivered the clear message from Allah that we shall not conduct adultery. But why Muhammad still did it???
 
And again, why Muhammad allowed his soldiers to rape jewish females in the Khaibar war??? Why they did such an immoral action???
 
I truly sad knowing these immoral stories and very very sad knowing that it was done by my lovely Prophet. Please... please help me.
 
Thanks & regards,
Cinta
 
  


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 5:06am
It is not the wrong way, sister
 
Gradual change in society was one of the main features in Islam, and this principle was applied to the eradication of slavery. Had it been a command from day 1 to liberate all slaves, it would have been a command too difficult for the vast majority of people to follow
 
This same principle was applied in the prohibition of alcohol, which was not applied from Day 1, but after more than 15 years from the start of the revelation of The Qur'an. This gave people a transition phase, which prepared them for change before the verse which prohibited alcohol was revealed, three earlier verses had apready prepared them to quit
 
Islam is a realistic religion ..............
 


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Posted By: Traveller
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:09am

Amox, look here.

We were discussing this.
 
If Indonesia have the same laws like Singapore and enforce it well like Singapore, those conflicts between Christians and Muslims in Indonesia wouldn't  have happened.
 
Need I remind you of malicious intents we were discussing?
 


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In life, be like a traveller. Take only what you need


Posted By: Bill2702
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 9:38am
I think you're on the wrong bus Traveller!

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Anything free is worth what you pay for it.


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 8:53pm
 
Hi all... wasallamualaikum Al Cordoby....
 
Thanks for your explaination. I can distinguish the difference between process in the society and the action of a prophet.
 
I believe in our Prophet time, adultery is clearly prohibited by jewish society in Khaibar, Medinah & Mekah (they refer to Moses Law). Also prohibited by Christian Coptic society in Jazirah Arabia (they refer to Al Kitab). When our Prophet told lie to his wife and then had sex with Mariah the Coptic girl. Then allowed the Muslim soldiers to rape the jewish female in Khaibar, it would show to the world that our Prophet did something contradict & negative. It is not the process to a better society condition, but ruin the positive society norm (prohibit adultery) at that time.
 
Can our Prophet action to Mariah the Coptic girl be categorized as adultery or zinah? Can the Muslim soldiers in Khaibar be categorized as zinah?
 
And what is the punishment of adultery/ zinah in Islam?
 
I really want to know the answer, because it's always confusing me.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 9:00pm
Did you read the IOL answer above?



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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 4:50am
Hi all... wasallamualaikum Al Cordoby...
 
Yes, I read all the article and I clearly understand what stated in the article. It is not the answer for adultery but the justification for legalising the wrong action. Raping a slave to make her free is not rasional and I believe only satan/syaitan whom order this action.
 
Loving and respecting female slave is not by raping her (in order to make her and her baby free). Especially to rape the jewish women in front of their husbands (husband dead bodies) in the Khaibar war.
 
I can see how Chinese feminist are angry to Japanese soldiers who rape more than 100,000 women in Nanjing War in 1942. The purpose of raping the chinese women, of course, not to make them free, but to humiliate the chinese women.
 
Rape is adultery. Told lie to your wife and then have sex with her servant (or her slave) is also adultery. Is it right or I'm wrong?
 
I really curious about this thing. I'm crying everyday when I think about this. Please help me.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
Ps: Al Cordoby, sorry I do not mean to irritate you. I appreciate your effort.
 
 
 
   
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 11:44am
There is no irritation, as I know your purpose (from your own introduction)
 
You are mixing up 5 or more different issues, and so far I have responded to the first issue concerning Maria, the Coptic slave given as a gift from the Christian ruler of Egypt
 
Did you understand that point?
 


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 12:16pm
Hi all.... Wasallamualaikum....
 
Yes I do understand the point. Btw, I do not focus on the slavery thing, I focus on the adultery.
 
My still-unanswered question is whether it can be categorised as adultery / zinah when mother of believers, Siti Hafsa surprisingly found his husband on her bed having sex with her servant, Mariah the Coptic girl.
 
Siti Hafsa's husband took an oath that he would never touch Mariah again. But unfortunately he broke his own promise and made Mariah pregnant. 
 
I really want to know whether it can be categorised as adultery or zinah? Or it is an exceptional only for our Prophet?
 
Furthermore did Allah allow this kind of action?
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 1:19pm
There is no adultery involved as it was permissible
 
The Qur'an clearly says (ma malakat aymanakum) are lawful
 
How often you read The Qur'an?
 
 
 


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Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 2:48pm
Mariah, the Copt, is an honored woman in Islam, and she was the mother of the son of the Prophet Muhammad (saws), whose name was Ibraheem. The Prophet's (saws) relationship with her added to the richness of Islam by showing that he accepted a Christian woman into his family.

I've read the story that Hafsa was upset by the Prophet (saws) being intimate with Mariah in her bed, but what was it that upset Hafsa? The Prophet (saws) being intimate, or doing so with another woman in Hafsa's bed? Clearly it was the latter, that it was in Hafsa's bed, because the Prophet (saws) had many wives besides Hafsa and we don't see her raising objections to the Prophet's intimacy with them, do we?

Moreover, there are examples of the Companions of the Prophet (saws) being intimate with captive women without it ever being called adultry. And clearly one who reads the Qur'an to understand what adultery is, would know that the Prophet's (saws) relationship with Maria was not that at all.

She was either (1) a captive woman with whom the Prophet (saws) was intimate, or (2) a freed wife of the Prophet (saws). And in either case there would be no adultery.


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 10:37pm
hi all... wasallamualaikum,
 
إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]
[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ النِّسَآءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]
Yes, I read Al Quran everyday and I understand the meaning.
 
Because I understand the meaning, that's why I ask the sensitive question.
 
If our Prophet and his soldiers (who rape the jewish women in Khaibar war) are permitted by Allah, then it is legal or halal for a muslim to rape kafirun girls.
 
I am the witness of the group raping in Jakarta in 1998. I saw muslims were raping the kafirun women. While they 'humilated' the kafirun women, they said loudly 'Allah hu akbar'.
 
It is a very shameful thing and I'm rethinking who is Allah whom I pray everyday in my sholat? Why Allah permit His followers to do such a satanic actions??? 
 
Again, this become 'sunah' for muslims in my hometown. I routinely heard from our Imam that do 'satanic things' to kafirun are halal and permitted by Allah.
 
I do not know what I shall do, I have friends from different background and religion. They are nice and friendly persons. But why they have to be treated like that??? Fyi, my christian friends became the rape victims in the 'satanic' accident.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
      
 

 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 10:52pm
That is a wrong understanding sister
 
Slavery has been abolished, and Islam opened the gates wide open for its eradication
 
 


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 1:49am
hi all... wasallamualaikum...
 
So does it mean that if it was halal in Jahiliah time, now it is haram / forbiden in our time???
 
Now in our time, if a muslim cheated (told a lie) to his wife and then have sex with her servant, can it be categorised as adultery?
(*plz answer : Yes, it is adultery  OR  No, it is not adultery)
 
If a muslim rape a kafirun girl, is it adultery?
(*plz answer : Yes, it is adultery  OR  No, it is not adultery)
 
I really want to know the answer. Btw, sorry for the irritating statements.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 2:42am
Once again, if you want to understand nabillah, slavery existed before Islam
 
It was a fact of life, and slaves were all over the world
 
Eradicating slavery could not be done over-night, and Islam opened the door for eliminating slavery in a gradual way. Today slavery no longer exists in the world, and it is thanks to Islam that we have reached this phase
 
The same happened with the prohibition of alcohol, it was a gradual process which lasted 15 years. During the first 15 years, drinking alcohol was not haram
 
After that it became haram when the final verse from The Qur'an that prohibited alcohol was revealed
 
It's the same with slavery
 
Can you understand?
 
 


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 3:36am
 
wasallamualaikum Al Cordoby,
 
Once again & again, I'm not interested in slavery (please refer to the title of the topic). I'm only interested in adultery.
 
I still haven't got any answers for the following questions:
 
a) If a muslim cheated (told a lie) to his wife and then have sex with her servant, can it be categorised as adultery?
(*plz answer : Yes, it is adultery  OR  No, it is not adultery)
 
b) If a muslim rape a kafirun girl, is it adultery?
(*plz answer : Yes, it is adultery  OR  No, it is not adultery)
 
Those are my questions & please don't explain me the alcohol & slavery things as we all agree that alcohol & slavery are not permitted in Islam. Sorry for the stressing of the statement as I want to make sure that you really understand the questions.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 4:02am
wasallamualaikum,
 
Thanks Aviatrix for your explaination.
 
Btw, Hafsa was upset because the Prophet told lie to her (*I believe you already know the story / hadist). And the Prophet promised to not touch Hafsa's servant/slave (Mariah) again. But the Prophet broke his own promise and he still intimate with Mariah till she pregnant and gave a son whose name was Ibrahim. (*unfortunately Ibrahim died when he was reaching year 2).
 
If this case happen in our time :
 
Mrs. Abdullah was upset because Mr. Abdullah told lie to her. Mr. Abdullah promise to not touch Miss Servant again. But Mr. Abdullah broke his own promise and he make Miss Servant pregnant.  Can it be categorised as adultery??
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
  


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Moby1
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 4:24pm
HI Al,
Nice to meet you. I have a question. Why would Mohammed not realize that sex with a slave is wrong or for that matter slavery is wrong if he was from God? Thanks. I have been lurking for a while. Great to meet you all.
 
Moby


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 8:50pm
Hello Moby and welcome to the forum
 
When Maria gave a son, she became free
 
This practice was the custom of all people at the time, including God's past prophets, like Prophet Abraham, peace be upon him, with Hagar
 
Islam gave a way out from slavery, and the example was set by Prophet Muhammad for the eradication of slavery, which eventually took place as the Qur'an encouraged Muslims to free their slaves


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 10:49pm

wasallamualaikum Al Cordoby,

I understand why you are reluctant to answer my sensitive questions, I believe you are afraid to tell the objective. You are trying to escape with the eradication things, which means that the ayats in Al Quran will 'eradicate' according to the current condition & depend on the interpretation of muslim (not muslimah). 
 
So what the impact of the ayats for current muslims & muslimahs??
Since there is no slavery in most countries, then is the ayat still valid?? Is it still halal for a muslim to rape a kafirun women??? Is it still halal for a muslim to treat the kafirun badly??? Is it still halal for a muslim to cheat his wife and then have sex with her servant???
 
Just several hours ago, the bomb blast killed more than 10 innocent people in my home town (pls see CNN for the detail). A week ago 100 ton of bomb was found in the madrasah / islamic boarding school and ready to be sent to kafirun. I believe my brother muslims use the ayat to justify their action to attact the kafirun. May the 'real' Allah gives us the right path and avoid us from following the satanic ways. I pray for the unfortunate victims (regardless of their religion), may Allah recieves them in heaven and punish the wrong doers. Amin.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 
 
  


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 10:53pm
The answer to your questions is no


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 1:07am
hi all... wasallamuaikum,
 
So Al Cordoby agreed that this ayat / verses are not valid in our time??
 
إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]
[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ النِّسَآءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ
 
Some muslims still implement this ayat for the justification of their adultery.
The mass rape to kafirun women in Indonesia could not be processed because the doers are muslim and the victims are kafirun. And again the doers believe they are permitted by 'Allah' and it is stated in the ayat.
 
Hundred of Indonesian female workers are being raped in Saudi Arabia because their male boss use the ayat to justify their wrong doing. The male boss hide behind this ayat and they cannot be accused with Indonesian or secular civil law.
 
The impact of the ayat is significant but in the negative side. My friends (muslim) believe that all ayats in Al Quran are valid until now (*valid forever).
 
So if we said that what the Prophet had done to Siti Hafsa (tell lie) and done to Mariah (had sex without the permittion of the master, Siti Hafsa) are halal, then the muslim will happily follow it (as sunah). This is not a status matter (slave, servant, helper) but this is a matter of how you respect your wife and your servant. Again, respecting your servant is not by raping her.
 
Do we ever understand the feeling of Siti Hafsa, when she saw the Prophet cheated her at the night of her turn??? Can we imagine how Siti Hafsa angry when the Prophet broke his promise to not touch Mariah???
 
Do we ever understand the feeling of khaibar's jewish females, when they were raped by the muslim soldiers at the same day they saw the killings of their husbands???
 
Having sex with the females (not wife) regardless of her religion, position or status is still adultery. Are we all agree???
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 1:59am
<< Some muslims still implement this ayat for the justification of their adultery >>
 
They are wrong


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 4:55am

wasallamualaikum,

Satan / syaitan hide behind the ayat.
 
Adultery can be permitted with condition (*justification of wrong doing).
 
Rape can be permitted to free the slave (*satanic justification).
 
Killing can be permitted with condition (*justification of wrong doing).
 
Now we are agree that tell lie to your wife and have sex with her servant is Adultery. (*my muslim brothers, please don't follow it or make it as sunah)
 
Now we are agree that Raping a female is Adultery, no matter her status, religion, nationality, position etc. So what the muslim soldiers had done to jewish females in Khaibar is adultery. May Allah forgive the soldiers and give peace to the victims.
 
I also pray that Allah will forgive my muslim friends whom attacted the kafirun in the Jakarta bomb blast this morning. May Allah also forgive my muslim brothers and give peace to the innocent victims. Amin.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Moby1
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

Hello Moby and welcome to the forum
 
When Maria gave a son, she became free
 
This practice was the custom of all people at the time, including God's past prophets, like Prophet Abraham, peace be upon him, with Hagar
 
Islam gave a way out from slavery, and the example was set by Prophet Muhammad for the eradication of slavery, which eventually took place as the Qur'an encouraged Muslims to free their slaves
Hi Al,
Thank you for your answer. Are you saying by selling a slave to be someone's property thus the buyer of the slave having sexual relations with the slave makes you free by Islam's standards? I also read that Saudi Arabi had slaves until the 1960's. They are Muslim right? Thank you.
 
Moby


Posted By: jimdi3
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 2:54pm
like Prophet Abraham, peace be upon him, with Hagar
 
Hagar was Sarah's slave not Abrahams.


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 1:03am
wasallamualaikum,
 
I know Hagar was Sarah's slave and Sarah permitted his husband, Prophet Abraham to marry Hagar, a coptic girl.
 
Mariah was Hafsa's slave (or servant) and Hafsa did not permit his husband to touch or even to have sex with Mariah, a coptic girl.
 
I can see the similarity of these stories and I also can see the differences between them.
 
Abraham married with Hagar formally and with the permit from his wife. Every body was happy with the decision. Hagar understood that she could hardly gave a child to Abraham and she was happy to have Hagar as her 'substitute'. Hagar was also happy to get better status as Abraham's wife.
And finally Allah bless the whole family. 
 
On the other hand, Hafsa was angry with her husband decision to brake the promise and to make Mariah pregnant and gave birth to Ibrahim (the only son). Unfortunately Ibrahim died at the age of 2.
 
I hope my brothers & sisters in Islam get the wisdom of the stories.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
   
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: jimdi3
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:10am
Just a comment ..... Hagar was not a Coptic girl.  (Coptic religion is Christain ......established long after Abraham, even after the coming of the Christ)
 
There was no marriage ....... Sarah encouraged Abraham to enter Hagar as he would a wife. (You need to know the meaning of the original word used in Scripture and why it was used.) Basically the story is a documated surrogacy.


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hype the sensationalism by capitalizing on the propensity of a few. Grotham


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 26 July 2009 at 8:13pm
wasallamualaikum jimdi3,
 
Thanks for your correction. It's my mistake to assume coptic as egypt area.
 
Btw, Sarah gave permittion thus the relationship between Abraham and Hagar is not adultery or zinah.
 
But when your wife disagreed with your relationship with her servant, then we can call it as zinah.
 
Thanks.
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: jimdi3
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:58am
Hello Cinta
 
I agree with your statement below
 
"Btw, Sarah gave permittion thus the relationship between Abraham and Hagar is not adultery or zinah."
 
Sarah in fact encouraged the relationship to conceive a child, see
 
 Genesis Chapter 16
א  וְשָׂרַי אֵשֶׁת אַבְרָם, לֹא יָלְדָה לוֹ; וְלָהּ שִׁפְחָה מִצְרִית, וּשְׁמָהּ הָגָר. 1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bore him no children; and she had a handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.
ב  וַתֹּאמֶר שָׂרַי אֶל-אַבְרָם, הִנֵּה-נָא עֲצָרַנִי יְהוָה מִלֶּדֶת--בֹּא-נָא אֶל-שִׁפְחָתִי, אוּלַי אִבָּנֶה מִמֶּנָּה; וַיִּשְׁמַע אַבְרָם, לְקוֹל שָׂרָי. 2 And Sarai said unto Abram: 'Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing; go in, I pray thee, unto my handmaid; it may be that I shall be builded up through her.' And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
 
In pre-Mosaic times, there was also a custom of using a slave girl as a surrogate mother, e.g. Sarah suggesting that Abraham use Hagar to bear children on her behalf (Genesis 16), and echos of it in Jacob bearing children with Leah’s maid Zilpah on Leah’s behalf (Genesis 30:9 ff.) and with Rachel’s maid Bilhah on behalf of Rachel (Genesis 30:3 ff.).
 
 


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hype the sensationalism by capitalizing on the propensity of a few. Grotham


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 4:11am
wasallamualaikum Jimdi3,
 
Yes, all got permittion from their wives, but when the Prophet had sex with Mariah, he did not get any permittion from Hafsa. The Prophet told a lie and broke his own promise. I assume that it can be categorised as adultery / zinah.
 
Btw, many muslims use and follow the ayat, they said that it is sunnah and cannot be categorised as adultery / zinah. They think that :
a. Muslim can brake his promise, especially promise made to his wives.
b. Muslim can have sex with his 'slaves' (workers).
c. It is halal to rape kafirun females.
d. Ayat/ verses in Al Quran is forever, it is still valid until now. It is the final guidance.
 
I also read the excuses made by the Arabic employers when they raped the Indonesian female workers. The employers said it was not their fault when they "touch" the female workers. They blamed the workers to seduce them, not to wear "proper" muslimah cloth, and moreover there is no witness to tell that the employers raped the workers (*there is at least 4 witnesses). Consequently, the employers are free from any blaming and the female workers are blamed for adultery.
 
For me, this is unfair for the female victims. And I am speechless knowing that the wrong action is supported by the Ayat and the sunnah.
 
I'm wondering whether it is just the misinterpretation or 'real' Allah really allow such an evil doing.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 11:40am
Cinta, you nailed it in your last post.  It is misinterpretation of the grossest kind...for self serving reasons by selfish men.   You bring many valid points to the table and they deserve recognition and honest discussion, especially by our muslim brothers. 
 
I completely agree with your assessment.  Permission is necessary by any of the involved women for any of these acts to be halal.  If a woman is taken by force, it is rape.  If a man doesn't have permission to have another wife, it is cheating.  The list goes on...  Women need to find their strength again and stop being afraid.  Some things considered sunnah and law do need to be re-examined for the sake of all Islam.


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 10:37pm
wasallamualaikum Cyra,
 
Thanks for your comment.
Btw, I'm wondering why our muslim brothers took the ayat & sunnah as their life guidelines.
 
They always told me that Al Quran is the final revelation and our best guidelines. If we follow the ayats & the sunnah, we will follow the best creature, our Prophet.
 
But, I strongly disagree that cheating your wife is 'sunnah'. Having sex with your servant is 'sunnah'. Rape kafirun girls is halal and 'sunnah'. Married with small girl (9-year old girl) as 'sunnah'.
 
I'm thinking why merciful & lovely Allah once permit the muslim brothers to rape the jewish females in Kaibar war. Do the muslim brothers & jewish females have the same Allah? Most of the prophets are jewish. Why Allah "hate" jewish so much??? Is Allah worshipped by jewish females (the Khaibar victims) different from Allah worshipped by the muslim brothers???
 
Why the 'real' Allah permit our Prophet to cheat Hafsa? And to break his own promise to not touch Mariah??? Does Allah know that the sunnah & ayat will be followed by our muslim brothers??? Why the bad examples can be our "perfect" guideline ????
 
The bad incidents in our time are following these sunnahs & ayats.
The last week bomb blast in Jakarta was done by our muslim brothers.
The rape of kafirun in Jakarta was done by muslim brothers.
The rape of Indonesian female workers was done by muslim brothers in Saudi Arabia. Most tragic that those incidents cannot be proceed with state law, they said Islamic law (syariah, sunnah & Quran) is higher than the state law.
 
So what's wrong with our religion??? Is Islam for human beings???
or Human beings is for Islam???? Are we all hiding behind the ayats & sunnahs to do the evil works???
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 4:57am

wasallamualaikum all



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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 10:29am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

 
Mariah was Hafsa's slave (or servant) and Hafsa did not permit his husband to touch or even to have sex with Mariah, a coptic girl.
 
...
 
On the other hand, Hafsa was angry with her husband decision to brake the promise and to make Mariah pregnant and gave birth to Ibrahim (the only son). Unfortunately Ibrahim died at the age of 2.
 
I hope my brothers & sisters in Islam get the wisdom of the stories.


The two stories are not analogous. Mariah was not Hafsa's slave, or servant. Not at all. Mariah was sent to the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) as a gift, so if she was a slave to anyone it would be to Muhammad (ﷺ) and not Hafsa.

So it's not Hafsa's place to permit or allow her husband relations with a woman who is his servant or his wife. The reason Hafsa was angry was that the intimacy took place in her own bed, Hafsa's bed.

The story needs to be understood correctly, and so far you haven't been presenting it accurately.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 10:51am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

wasallamualaikum Cyra,
 
Thanks for your comment.
Btw, I'm wondering why our muslim brothers took the ayat & sunnah as their life guidelines.


For the same reason all Muslims take the ayaat of the Qur'an and the Sunnah as guidelines:

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. 33:21
 
They always told me that Al Quran is the final revelation and our best guidelines. If we follow the ayats & the sunnah, we will follow the best creature, our Prophet.


This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. 5:3
But, I strongly disagree that cheating your wife is 'sunnah'. Having sex with your servant is 'sunnah'. Rape kafirun girls is halal and 'sunnah'. Married with small girl (9-year old girl) as 'sunnah'.
You won't find Muslims with knowledge who believe that the Prophet Muhammad  ﷺ ever cheated on any of his wives. Ever. Slavery as an institution no longer exists as it did during the time of the Prophet ﷺ. Rape is an abominable sin, regardless of the girl's religion--rape is not and has never been a part of the Sunnah of the Prophet ﷺ. The Prophet's marriage to 'A'isha was culturally acceptable at that time, and in general a marriage to a girl of that age would not be acceptable today.
 
I'm thinking why merciful & lovely Allah once permit the muslim brothers to rape the jewish females in Kaibar war. Do the muslim brothers & jewish females have the same Allah? Most of the prophets are jewish. Why Allah "hate" jewish so much??? Is Allah worshipped by jewish females (the Khaibar victims) different from Allah worshipped by the muslim brothers???
Rape is never okay, as I said before.
 
Why the 'real' Allah permit our Prophet to cheat Hafsa? And to break his own promise to not touch Mariah??? Does Allah know that the sunnah & ayat will be followed by our muslim brothers??? Why the bad examples can be our "perfect" guideline ????
Did you know that Allah revealed to Muhammad ﷺ, some ayaat about his wives? Have you read them, in Surah Tahreem? The Prophet ﷺ is supposed to be an example:

O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
The bad incidents in our time are following these sunnahs & ayats.
The last week bomb blast in Jakarta was done by our muslim brothers.
The rape of kafirun in Jakarta was done by muslim brothers.
The rape of Indonesian female workers was done by muslim brothers in Saudi Arabia. Most tragic that those incidents cannot be proceed with state law, they said Islamic law (syariah, sunnah & Quran) is higher than the state law.


Just to clarify--you are blaming Islam for a bomb, and for rapes. But you're entirely misrepresenting Islam, which actually condemns any sort of terrorism (like bombing) and prohibits illicit intercourse which includes rape. Islamic Law, Shari'ah, were it properly implemented, would punish the perpetrators of these acts. And you dare to blame them on Shari'ah? They are acts of ignorance, of the time before Islam.
 
So what's wrong with our religion??? Is Islam for human beings???
or Human beings is for Islam???? Are we all hiding behind the ayats & sunnahs to do the evil works???
 
The Qur'an and the Sunnah being used for evil? No. The problems you mention are from ignorance, not from Islam. Islam is the cure. 

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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 2:24pm
Maybe it wasn't quite accurate in it's presentation, but for a man to take a different woman (not the wife) in a marriage bed, still wrong.  Color me jaded, but if I was married and my husband took another woman, wife or not in my bed, I would be beyond livid.  Doesn't matter who or how they are connected.


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 5:28pm
I would also be upset for my husband to be intimate with another woman in my bed, and I can understand how Hafsa was upset.

To go on ranting about rape and adultery, as has been done in this thread isn't relevant to Hafsa's situation whatsoever. Intimate relations with Maria were undoubtedly permissible in Islamic Law, or the Prophet ﷺ wouldn't have engaged in such relations. That they took place in Hafsa's bed is a far lesser matter, even though it seems to be in poor taste.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 6:00pm
I hear you, Amy.  Although, I'm thinking "upset" and "in poor taste" are understatements.  I do think that Cinta ( and myself) are trying to understand why some brothers will use these examples to justify horrid practices.  It may just be a case of rhetorical questioning and venting of frustration.  It frustrates me to read or hear about  cases where men will say "She asked for it, she wasn't dressed properly," etc.  Obviously, these guys don't really understand their own religion if they say such outrageous things or say that it is sunnah.  There may also be a level of frustration more directed toward the countries that allow these things to happen, especially being that they are "muslim" countries, supposedly held to shari'ah.  It appears (note I say "appears") that men get away with a lot of nasty things in regards to women in some places.  I can't know because I'm not there to experience these issues, al hamdulillah.  However, if even  one women is mistreated in  these ways and they use these "guidelines" to justify the behaviors, it is utterly wrong.
 
Also, and maybe I'm off here, but "guidelines" are just that guidelines.  Sunnah are guidelines based on the prophet's (pbuh) actions, words, etc.  Not necessarily the hard and fast rules.  They show us how he dealt with certain situations of the times which may give us insight on how to deal with certain present day situations, yes?  Ayat, however is the Word of Allah and is a set of hard, set in stone rules, no?  Please do correct me if I'm not getting it...still learning y'know.


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 10:08pm
wasallamualaikum all,
 
I always heard from my muslim brothers in Friday Prayings that "guidances" in Quran are final, obvious (not ambigious), give precise orders and valid from jahiliah time until now.
 
So they see the examples / sunnahs are still valid today and they are halal to do it. I saw how my muslim brothers attached the kafirun houses, burnt the houses (including the people inside) and raped the kafirun females on the street. When they did it, they said loudly 'Allah hu Akbar".
 
Our Imam also said based on Ayats & Hadists, it is halal.
My muslim brothers use the ayats that permit the muslim soldiers to rape the jewish females in Khaibar war. In other words, the ayats are the justification and also permission for my muslim brothers to do (as they said) God works & God Will, but I believe it was evil works.
 
In family life, I always heard directly from my muslimah sisters that their husband frequently "love" them with some hits and slaps. Their husbands said it is halal and permitted in Quran. Sometimes their husbands brought female servants to their beds. And again, they said it was permitted. If their wives are diagree with that, then the wives will be hit & slapped again due to disrespect to husband & Islam.
 
So the definition of Adultery in Islam become so abstruct to me. Should I use the definition of Adultery based on secular point of view or from Islamic point of view.
 
To make me clear, please tell me:
a) What muslim soldiers did to jewish females in Khaibar war can be caterorised as RAPE?
b) What is the punishment for RAPE in Islam?
c)  Does Allah once allow RAPE ?
 
Your answers may help me.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: sixthromeo
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 11:08am
You are enlightened, much as the lighthouse in your avatar. Allah blesses you.

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:Spencer


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 11:42am
Originally posted by Cyra

I hear you, Amy.  Although, I'm thinking "upset" and "in poor taste" are understatements.  I do think that Cinta ( and myself) are trying to understand why some brothers will use these examples to justify horrid practices.  It may just be a case of rhetorical questioning and venting of frustration.  It frustrates me to read or hear about  cases where men will say "She asked for it, she wasn't dressed properly," etc.  Obviously, these guys don't really understand their own religion if they say such outrageous things or say that it is sunnah.


It's true they don't understand their religion, and we shouldn't let them get away with their ignorance. So I'm calling them on their ignorance. Complaints like the ones in this thread actually justify their ignorance, and try to make Islam out to be the problem when the exact reverse is true.

A friend of mine is a student at law school, and she related to me a story about a man in her class who was arguing with the professor on the matter of rape. Basically, if the girl "consented," was it still considered rape. The student's argument was that if the man forced (with threats or physical violence) the women to "allow" him to penetrate her, that it wouldn't be considered rape. The person was from a "developing country" where such behavior is considered commonplace. And he, studying to be a lawyer, considered such forced "consent" to be a legitimate legal defense against rape! (Suffice to say the law professor did NOT agree!)

A week or so ago on the news there were stories from men in South Africa who would gang-rape a woman--they would buy her a drink in a bar, drug her, and then abduct and rape her. They considered it perfectly acceptable to do so, because if the woman was in the bar she was to some extent "asking for it."

This behavior, rape and sexual assault, is associated with ignorance, and to some extent oppressed societies, where men treat women this way. My point is that if a man wants to commit a rape, he will use all manner of ridiculous excuses to support it. If some brothers are using Islam to justify their behavior, then we should set them straight.

What is happening here in this thread is that sisters are trying to justify brothers' behavior with Islam!!! How much worse!? They're blaming Islam, and that needs correction.

There may also be a level of frustration more directed toward the countries that allow these things to happen, especially being that they are "muslim" countries, supposedly held to shari'ah.  It appears (note I say "appears") that men get away with a lot of nasty things in regards to women in some places.  I can't know because I'm not there to experience these issues, al hamdulillah.  However, if even  one women is mistreated in  these ways and they use these "guidelines" to justify the behaviors, it is utterly wrong.


There was a woman who accused a man of rape, either during the time of the Prophet ﷺ or an eminent scholar after him. She accused a particular man of raping her (and she had been raped) and that man was going to be punished, severely (I think by stoning to death), with the only piece of evidence being the testimony of the woman! So how can we say that rape is a sunnah, when clearly it is punishable by death?
 
Also, and maybe I'm off here, but "guidelines" are just that guidelines.  Sunnah are guidelines based on the prophet's (pbuh) actions, words, etc.  Not necessarily the hard and fast rules.  They show us how he dealt with certain situations of the times which may give us insight on how to deal with certain present day situations, yes?  Ayat, however is the Word of Allah and is a set of hard, set in stone rules, no?  Please do correct me if I'm not getting it...still learning y'know.


In some cases, guidelines, and in some cases hard and fast rules. The Sunnah is not a lesser authority, first of all. It is equal to the Qur'an, in that if the Prophet ﷺ prohibited something for the Muslims, the prohibition is from Allah and in that sense it is equal to the Qur'an. The life of the Prophet ﷺ is supposed to be an example for us, and legal rulings are absolutely derived from the way he dealt with particular situations (like rape.)

It doesn't mean we have to do every single thing he did (e.g., wear the same kinds of clothes, eat the same foods, etc.) and can't do anything he didn't do, but he is someone to learn from.

And so when people (typically it is the enemies of Islam) claim that the Prophet ﷺ did something as evil as rape a woman, it's a claim that should be addressed. If people use the Sunnah to justify their behavior, they need to know what the Sunnah is, and not pick and choose a random piece they want to use to fulfill their personal desires.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

wasallamualaikum all,
 
I always heard from my muslim brothers in Friday Prayings that "guidances" in Quran are final, obvious (not ambigious), give precise orders and valid from jahiliah time until now.


Not everything in the Qur'an is perfectly crystal clear, even the Qur'an says so:

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Quran). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah, and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. http://searchquran.net/quran.php?q=3:7 - 3:7
So there are clear verses and unclear verses. But your brothers won't find any verse in the Qur'an which justifies rape or abuse of women. 

And certainly the Qur'an (and the Sunnah) still apply today, and do so for the end of time, there's no dispute on that. But that requires actual understanding of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

So they see the examples / sunnahs are still valid today and they are halal to do it. I saw how my muslim brothers attached the kafirun houses, burnt the houses (including the people inside) and raped the kafirun females on the street. When they did it, they said loudly 'Allah hu Akbar".


There are no examples in the Qur'an or the Sunnah of attacking non-Muslims without provocation, without cause. And even if there is cause to fight (like in war), then it is still not allowed (it is prohibited, haraam) to kill women, children, or any non-combatants (sick, elderly, etc.) Rape is never ever allowed. And your brothers will not find any example in the Qur'an or Sunnah of rape ever being permissible.
 
Our Imam also said based on Ayats & Hadists, it is halal.
I think you might have misunderstood what is halaal--rape never is.

My muslim brothers use the ayats that permit the muslim soldiers to rape the jewish females in Khaibar war. In other words, the ayats are the justification and also permission for my muslim brothers to do (as they said) God works & God Will, but I believe it was evil works.


There is absolutely no authentic evidence of rape ever being permitted, and this is a claim of the enemies of Islam, who are twisting and distorting the actual reports.
 
In family life, I always heard directly from my muslimah sisters that their husband frequently "love" them with some hits and slaps. Their husbands said it is halal and permitted in Quran. Sometimes their husbands brought female servants to their beds. And again, they said it was permitted. If their wives are diagree with that, then the wives will be hit & slapped again due to disrespect to husband & Islam.


So you live in a country which has servants? Interesting. Still, the Islamic concept of captive women (i.e., "what your right hands possess") is not equivalent to the idea of a "servant" being a housekeeper, etc. And any man who thinks that hitting or slapping a person shows "love" is a moron. The Prophet ﷺ according to his wife, Aisha, never hit a woman, or a servant, or anything except when he was fighting in the sake of Allah (i.e., at war.) That is the Sunnah.

So the definition of Adultery in Islam become so abstruct to me. Should I use the definition of Adultery based on secular point of view or from Islamic point of view.
When you're talking about Islam, use the definition of adultery in Islam. 
 
To make me clear, please tell me:
a) What muslim soldiers did to jewish females in Khaibar war can be caterorised as RAPE?

There's no authentic evidence to substantiate such a ridiculous claim. The women were taken as captives and even given restrictions about how to treat them. Women captives were supposed to provided and cared for in the same manner as a wife! The idea of captives is abominable to us today but something that was commonplace at the time, and at the time a man wouldn't think twice about taking or raping a woman. What Islam gives women in that position is freedom from his force during menstruation and pregnancy, provision in terms of food, clothing, and shelter, and also a means to obtain her freedom--by having a child, or by accepting Islam. It was a way to help women get out of that position in a society that didn't understand how wrong it was. And more importantly, Islam provides a way to end human captivity altogether, which is the ultimate goal, isn't it?

b) What is the punishment for RAPE in Islam?

If it is actual rape, and not lawful intercourse with a woman whom a man is legally allowed to have intercourse with, then the punishment is either lashes or stoning to death.

c)  Does Allah once allow RAPE ?
How could you even ask?
 


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:40pm
Punishment for rapists:

It might be the same as for zina (at a minimum) which means either stoning to death for a married person, or lashes for an unmarried person, (in addition to paying a sum of money to the woman in both those cases) and banishment if the person is not killed. If the person threatened the use of a weapon, there might be a punishment of four things, either death, crucifixion, exile, or cutting hands/feet from opposite sides. These four punishments are an option for the judge in that case.

From http://islamqa.com/en/ref/72338/rape - here .


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 2:07pm
Thanks Amy.  Your vast stores of knowledge never cease to amaze me.
 
BTW, I'm not sure that "trying to justify...with Islam" is accurate, at least not in my case.  I think I was more on the same page with you, in that we do need to set these guys straight, or at the very least try.  Unfortunately, many of them are unwilling to hear women, as they think they are lesser creatures and how could a woman possibly know more about it than them (men)?  Much as seems the case with your law school guy.


Posted By: jimdi3
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Cyra

Thanks Amy.  Your vast stores of knowledge never cease to amaze me.
 
BTW, I'm not sure that "trying to justify...with Islam" is accurate, at least not in my case.  I think I was more on the same page with you, in that we do need to set these guys straight, or at the very least try.  Unfortunately, many of them are unwilling to hear women, as they think they are lesser creatures and how could a woman possibly know more about it than them (men)?  Much as seems the case with your law school guy.
 
That of course is the key.
 
It's the guy's looking to excuse their behaviour (in any way) that need to be corrected.
 
As all three of you have pointed out!
 
Question .... how to get you point of view to be accepted .... by the lowest common denominator?
 
 


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hype the sensationalism by capitalizing on the propensity of a few. Grotham


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 11:17pm
One thing I love about Islam is that it's protected from run-of-the-mill morons who think harassment is their right, that they are entitled to it by virtue of their anatomy.

The scholars of Islam are teaching the message that the women are supporting, and women support it (obviously) because it's the truth. It just needs to be louder, especially from the scholars. Unfortunately, it's the backbirths who get time on the media, who get publicity, and not our beloved teachers who have devoted their lives to the study of our deen.

Islam is the solution--the Qur'an, and the Sunnah, and the beautiful example of the Prophet ﷺ.

One time, a man came to the Prophet ﷺ and asked for adultery/fornication (zina) to be made lawful for him. The way that the Prophet ﷺ responded should be a lesson for the rest of us. He asked the man how he would feel if someone were to commit adultery with his mother. And then he asked how he'd feel if someone were to fornicate with his sister. And so on. And because the man obviously would hate the act to be done with the women near to him, he was able to understand how it would be inappropriate to engage in it with a woman who was someone else's mother, daughter, sister, wife, etc.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 5:12am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
This ayat is used by my muslim brothers to attach the kafirun properties, take & rape the kafirun females.  
 
وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ النِّسَآءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ
" فَاسْتَحْلَلْنَا فَزَوْجهنَّ وَهَكَذَا رَوَاهُ التِّرْمِذِيّ عَنْ أَحْمَد بْن مَنِيع عَنْ هُشَيْم وَرَوَاهُ النَّسَائِيّ مِنْ حَدِيث سُفْيَان الثَّوْرِيّ وَشُعْبَة بْن الْحَجَّاج ثَلَاثَتهمْ عَنْ عُثْمَان الْبَتِّيّ وَرَوَاهُ اِبْن مَاجَهْ مِنْ حَدِيث أَشْعَث بْن سِوَار عَنْ عُثْمَان الْبَتِّيّ وَرَوَاهُ مُسْلِم فِي صَحِيحه
 
My muslim brothers really know how to implement this ayat in our time. They think kafirun females are halal to be raped.
Btw, is the ayat still valid now??? 
 
Dear Aviatrix, I believe your story is not valid (not sahih). I could not find the story in sahih hadists. Please refer to the above ayat, that's is the valid respond, which allowed our muslim brothers to rape the kafirun girls from Awtas area.
 
One time, a man came to the Prophet ﷺ and asked for adultery/fornication (zina) to be made lawful for him. The way that the Prophet ﷺ responded should be a lesson for the rest of us. He asked the man how he would feel if someone were to commit adultery with his mother. And then he asked how he'd feel if someone were to fornicate with his sister. And so on. And because the man obviously would hate the act to be done with the women near to him, he was able to understand how it would be inappropriate to engage in it with a woman who was someone else's mother, daughter, sister, wife, etc.
Please help our muslim brothers, for all muslimah sisters please unite.
 
Regards,
Cinta 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 10:19am
Ok, ummmm yeah...not so good with reading Arabic yet, yo...   LOL, who am I kidding?  Not so good with speaking it yet, either. 


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 10:24am
You must mean this ayah, since not all of what you posted above is actually an ayah.

Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

والمحصنات من النساء إلا ما ملكت أيمانكم كتاب الله عليكم وأحل لكم ما وراء ذلكم أن تبتغوا بأموالكم محصنين غير مسافحين فما استمتعتم به منهن فآتوهن أجورهن فريضة ولا جناح عليكم فيما تراضيتم به من بعد الفريضة إن الله كان عليما حكيما

It's http://searchquran.net/quran.php?q=4:24 - 4:24 , and clearly does not allow rape of anyone. It looks like your brothers are out of luck--incorrectly implementing something. They have no evidence to support their crimes. Shari'ah is instituted to protect five things, one of which is honor, and rape is a crime against honor, regardless of what the woman's religion is. There is no evidence to back up the claims of your brothers--maybe you should tell them that.

But personally, I don't know any Muslim man who would ever consider rape of a woman to be halal, even if every word out of her mouth were to curse Allah or the Prophet ﷺ. Why do you keep trying to insist that the rapists are in the right? Why are you trying to justify their behavior?

About the story I quoted, it is recorded in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad, on the authority of Abu Imama. It is mentioned in a book called "Status of Women in Islamic Society."

Allâh Ta’âla says:
"And do not go near zina. It is indeed a shameful and an evil path." (Surah Al Isrâ’, Ayah 32)

Allâh Ta’âla says:
"The woman and the man guilty of fornication - lash each of them with a hundred lashes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last day and let a group of believers witness their punishment". (Surah Al-Nűr, Ayah 2)

What you are discussing is very serious--it's time to educate your brothers about the seriousness of their crimes. Call them to Islam.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 5:29am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I had been in Dubai for 2 years & Riyadh for 3 years.
In Riyadh, I saw my fathers got thousand of rape reports, involving Indonesian female labors in Saudi Arabia. We could not charge the Arabian employees with the Indonesian law (secular law), the employees used the Syariah Law to avoid the charges. My father were frustated at that time, he once wrote a letter to Indonesian President to protect the female labors. Our secular government cannot do anything when they are facing the Islamic or Syariah law.  
 
I personally saw that the females in Riyadh were "jailed". They cannot get the same opportunities to get higher education & higher position in the society. Their activities were limited, their friendships were also limited. They all were "jailed" in their houses. I do not know what kind of freedom given by the Syariah law to my muslimah sisters in Saudi Arabia.
 
In Indonesia, I also see the same things, in the "much religious" Islamic area, I can see my muslimah friends are also "jailed". They cannot get higher education & stoning punishment is implemented if they did flirting or being raped. It is so tragic, they even do not have rights to defend themselves.
 
My Muslim brothers also think that they are the truly muslims. They do exactly 100% what Quran tell them. They want Syariah to be implemented in Indonesia. They want all muslimahs to be "limited". They do not want muslimahs in the streets, shopping centers & schools. They want all muslimahs to stay at home, waiting and "servicing" their husbands. They call the condition as the condition wanted by Allah & the Prophet.
 
They show me the ayats & the sahih hadists. They can read & speak Arabic. They know the exact meaning of the ayats & hadists. But so tragic that they follow them exactly as we were in the Prophet time.
 
I do not know why they call zinah / adultery when the muslimah sister was touched by the kafirun male. But they call it halal when the muslim brothers rape the kafirun females. The definition of rape in Islam become blur & ambigious. It is tragic that my muslim brothers follow exactly what stated in Quran & sahih Hadists.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 8:41am
Cinta, I daresay they do NOT know the exact meanings, as evidenced by their blatant disregard for women.  As Amy stated previously, the prophet (pbuh) never treated women in this manner nor did he allow it from others.


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 2:15pm
Precisely, Cyra.

I think Cinta's complaints are more about how Indonesian women are treated in Saudi Arabia--her assumption that Saudi "males" are perfectly implementing Islam is false. There are problems with racism and mistreatment, but really it's not compatible with her complaints about rape and so forth. There's a different problem.

The Qur'an never tells anyone to rape anyone, so it's utterly foolish to claim that someone is doing "100% what Quran tell them" when they are acting in obvious contravention to the Qur'an and Shari'ah.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: daichi
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 10:40pm
Assalamualaikum,
actually Im just being observer for this discussion since I Believed Im not really capable to give the true answer. but anyway I can't hold it anymore to read cinta's posting. first of all you talking about the riot that happen in 1998 where there's  a story about mass raping..and even there's a website that shows pic of woman got rape. I dunno what's you real intention for telling those story because there has been some investigation about that from internation independent team..and you know what.. they found such story is a fiction!.even the pics in a website that claim to be a pic of raping is a fake!. and IF.you really witness. you just assumed the rapist is a good muslim just because they said Allahuakbar?? so if you saw someone's raping and shouting halleluyah then you'll assumed he's a good christian??
and then you telling story about woman abuse in arab & indonesia(?) and you're like making conclusion that it's because of what Islam told??..about  woman discrimination...yes..discrimination exist in here. and as well as in other place. but your story of woman discrimination in indonesia?sorry. but I personally don't believe it.
you know.. there's a lot of people coming here as an Islam hater and know how to read Qur'an and interpretate of their own. so if you're not muslim  hating Islam you don't have to pretending to be muslim.
 
dan kalau kamu bukan orang Indonesia gak usah bawa2 Indonesia denga cerita ngawurmu itu!
 
dear all, sorry for being OOT. just a bit pissed off to someone who said something wrong (and it's more like fitna) about my place and my believe as well


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Posted By: daichi
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Aviatrix

Precisely, Cyra.

I think Cinta's complaints are more about how Indonesian women are treated in Saudi Arabia--her assumption that Saudi "males" are perfectly implementing Islam is false. There are problems with racism and mistreatment, but really it's not compatible with her complaints about rape and so forth. There's a different problem.

The Qur'an never tells anyone to rape anyone, so it's utterly foolish to claim that someone is doing "100% what Quran tell them" when they are acting in obvious contravention to the Qur'an and Shari'ah.
Im agree with you aviatrix. I think this person is trying to connect about what happen nowdays with Islam. about how Indonesian woman labour treated in saudi arabia. yes Im complaining that too.. about Bomb that just blasted few weeks ago.yes Im angry too..fyi. my office is really closed with the place.. when it happened. I was really shock & scared..but I know and everybody know that it has nothing to do with Islam. yet someone try to make it related here


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Posted By: Traveller
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 6:39am
Originally posted by Bill2702

I think you're on the wrong bus Traveller!
 
 
I don't think so Bill.
 
 


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In life, be like a traveller. Take only what you need


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 12:24pm

Wasallamualaikum,

I believe Daichi is a metropolitan man with metro and western life. Hope he is a moderate muslim, not "devoted" muslim like my muslim brothers in West & Central Java. 
 
Mas Daichi itu muslim toh? Koq namanya Daichi, apa itu nama jepang??? Mas itu wong jowo ato bukan??? Apa mas sudah lama tidak ke daerah??? Mampir ke mari mas, ke tempat kami di sini mas bisa liat kenapa temen-temen muslim kita jadi fanatik kayak begini.
 
Btw, I was the witness of the mass rape, I saw my muslim brothers did it. So I can give the testimony.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 12:28pm
Sister, we are talking about Islam here, and what is the truth of Islam.  And frankly your complaints do not have to do with Islam.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 11:34pm
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
Yes, I do understand that we're talking about Islam, especially the interpretation of Ayats & Hadists that make my muslim brothers can do these "nasty/immoral" actions :
1. My muslim brothers can attack & rape kafirun girls in the kafirun villages in Central Java. They said they followed the Ayat & Hadist of Khaibar war.
Until now, I haven't got any answer, whether the ayat & hadist are still valid in our modern time?
 
2. My muslim brothers always think that girls & women have to be at home all time and have to use full covered jilbab / burka. If they against it, then the stoning punishment will be implemented by them. Again, they use the ayat & sahih hadists.
 
3. My muslim brothers can have sex with the servants of their wives. They said it is halal and they show me the ayats & the sunnah (Prophet with Mariah the coptic girl).
 
4. My muslim brothers support their fellows who marry with young girls. Marry with a 9-year old girl become halal. Again, they show me the justification from Quran.
 
5. Etc.
 
I do not know whether the ayats & hadists are still valid until now. Or we have to re-interpret the ayats & hadists again & again???? Btw, my muslim brothers choose to follow exactly what Ayats, Hadists & Sunnahs told them to do. 
 
Regards,
Cinta 
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 11:42pm
Wasallamualaikum,
 
Because they use the Ayats, Hadists & Sunnah, I believe they are related to Islam. And I really want to know why there are alot of interpretation???
 
Quran become our final guidance & it is obvious and precise. That's what my "nasty" brothers believe in. They said when it is halal to attack the kafirun properties (their houses & temple) and rape the kafirun females, then it is halal. Halal is halal and no question. Period.
 
They do not allow me to question why the rape can be halal. My oldest brother once slapped me when I asked why halal???
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:09am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum all,
 
Yes, I do understand that we're talking about Islam, especially the interpretation of Ayats & Hadists that make my muslim brothers can do these "nasty/immoral" actions :

We're talking about the ayaat and ahadith which condemn the 'nasty/immoral' actions of your brothers. See:

1. My muslim brothers can attack & rape kafirun girls in the kafirun villages in Central Java. They said they followed the Ayat & Hadist of Khaibar war.
Until now, I haven't got any answer, whether the ayat & hadist are still valid in our modern time?


Let me be clear: there are no ayat or ahadith which allow muslim men to attack and rape women. Not from Khaybar or any other time. Not women who are among believers or disbelievers. Period. Your brothers are wrong if they say otherwise, it's that simple.
 
2. My muslim brothers always think that girls & women have to be at home all time and have to use full covered jilbab / burka. If they against it, then the stoning punishment will be implemented by them. Again, they use the ayat & sahih hadists.

Once again, there are no ayat ahadith which say women/girls have to be at home all the time.

3. My muslim brothers can have sex with the servants of their wives. They said it is halal and they show me the ayats & the sunnah (Prophet with Mariah the coptic girl).

Mariah was not a servant of Hafsah, but a wife of the Prophet (s)!
 
4. My muslim brothers support their fellows who marry with young girls. Marry with a 9-year old girl become halal. Again, they show me the justification from Quran.
There is no ayah in the Qur'an which specifies the age of marriage.  On the matter of the marriage to 'Aisha, it was acceptable at that time and generally is not acceptable today. It's a matter of 'urf in Islamic law that is not something I can adequately explain myself, but in short such marriages are not generally appropriate today.  Moreover, no woman may be married without her own consent.
 
I do not know whether the ayats & hadists are still valid until now.

You don't seem to know if they even exist.

Or we have to re-interpret the ayats & hadists again & again????
You cannot just "re-interpret" the word of God and His messenger to make the religion the way you want. Understand it the way it has classically been interpreted, and you will see how what I have explained to you here is the correct and valid interpretation. And how the twisted actions of your muslim brothers are a mockery of Islam.

Btw, my muslim brothers choose to follow exactly what Ayats, Hadists & Sunnahs told them to do.


Obviously, this is not true. It is obviously false because if your muslim brothers do what you describe, then they are doing what the Qur'an and the Sunnah prohibits, not what it commands. Quite the opposite, you see?


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:10am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum,
 
Because they use the Ayats, Hadists & Sunnah, I believe they are related to Islam. And I really want to know why there are alot of interpretation???
 
Quran become our final guidance & it is obvious and precise. That's what my "nasty" brothers believe in. They said when it is halal to attack the kafirun properties (their houses & temple) and rape the kafirun females, then it is halal. Halal is halal and no question. Period.
 
They do not allow me to question why the rape can be halal. My oldest brother once slapped me when I asked why halal???
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 


I guess you just believe what all these "nasty brothers" tell you, instead of actually learning for yourself?


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: daichi
Date Posted: 10 August 2009 at 3:05am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum,

I believe Daichi is a metropolitan man with metro and western life. Hope he is a moderate muslim, not "devoted" muslim like my muslim brothers in West & Central Java. 
 
Mas Daichi itu muslim toh? Koq namanya Daichi, apa itu nama jepang??? Mas itu wong jowo ato bukan??? Apa mas sudah lama tidak ke daerah??? Mampir ke mari mas, ke tempat kami di sini mas bisa liat kenapa temen-temen muslim kita jadi fanatik kayak begini.
 
Btw, I was the witness of the mass rape, I saw my muslim brothers did it. So I can give the testimony.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 sorry sis. I won't replied to message since it's gonna be OOT.
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Btw, I was the witness of the mass rape, I saw my muslim brothers did it. So I can give the testimony.
sure you do  and everybody said so. about the mass rape. for me it's a case closed and that issue is soo yesterday. I've been discussed & debate that long time ago either in the real world & another forum (kaskus)  with people who claimed to have a proof or even the pics. but in the end all thing are just fabricated. and moreover. it's OOT!  lil bit information for you. am the same ethnic of the victim of the riot back then.
and again. you brought some strange story again. and brought up your so called devout friend and it makes me a bit wonder. somehow you believe your so called devout muslim friend more than anybody else. why don't you bring them to here so probably they can teach us -the people who not devoted & still learning-   and also from my point of view. aviatrix has explained clearly but somehow you just being thick head


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 14 August 2009 at 4:50am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
Responding to my sister Aviatrix (sorry in advance for the 'hard' respond)
 
Let me be clear: there are no ayat or ahadith which allow muslim men to attack and rape women. Not from Khaybar or any other time. Not women who are among believers or disbelievers. Period. Your brothers are wrong if they say otherwise, it's that simple.

Yes, it is your opinion. But you can read these ayats & hadists which my muslim brothers believe 100% on them :

a) Sahih Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459 (about Al Azl / coptus interreptus with the female kafiruns)
 
b) Hadis Abu Dawud (2150) (having sex in front of the female kafiruns' husbands)
 
c) Ayat in Quran 4:24
 
Moreover, they believe the ayats & hadists are still valid until now and have to be "implemented" precisely 100%. Reducing the meaning of the hadists & ayats are forbidden by them. They said the ayats & hadists are very clear and it is commands to the true muslim, to declare war & spread terror to the kafiruns, and also to show the their true love (true lust) to the kafirun females.
 
Sis Aviatrix comment:
Mariah was not a servant of Hafsah, but a wife of the Prophet (s)!
There is no evidence that our Prophet married with Mariah. Mariah was not officially Prophet's wife. In hadists, she was recognised as one of our Prophet's sex slaves. Moreover, Mariah had sex with our Prophet before married (sex before married). (*so tragic, my muslim brothers follow it by having sex with their female servants without any guilty).
 
Sis Aviatrix comment:
You cannot just "re-interpret" the word of God and His messenger to make the religion the way you want. Understand it the way it has classically been interpreted, and you will see how what I have explained to you here is the correct and valid interpretation. And how the twisted actions of your muslim brothers are a mockery of Islam.
I agree with you Sis. But my brothers do not interpret the ayats & hadists. They just follow exactly 100% the ayats & hadists. 
 
Btw, should I tell my muslim brothers to "think & filter" the ayats & hadists again??? I will be stoned by them if I said so.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
  
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Traveller
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 3:29am
Or do those in whose hearts is disease think that Allah would never expose their [feelings of] hatred? And if We willed, We could show them to you, and you would know them by their mark; but [even so] you will surely know them by the tone of [their] speech. And Allah knows your deeds. The Noble Quran 47:29-30

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In life, be like a traveller. Take only what you need


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 5:11am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I was sad that my muslim brothers did not want to hear me that their actions were not permitted by Allah. They challenged me whether there is ayat, hadist or sunnah which order them to stop attacking and raping the kafirun females.
 
About the raping kafirun females, they said it is the kafirun's fault, why they do not want to cover their bodies with hijab, jilbab or burkah. And why they do not want to confess that Allah is the only God and our Prophet is the messenger of Allah.
 
So they said the kafirun females are halal to be raped. They refer it to the Khaibar war and other wars in our Prophet & Kalifahs' time. They said the kafirun females are the "right possesion" for the muslim brothers. Basically they just follow 100% what our Prophet ordered and what muslim soldiers did to kafirun girls. They do not want to argue or filter or adjust the ayats, hadists & sunnahs. They said it is final and still valid in our time.
 
So what should I do? Can I change their "pure" actions????
 
Regards,
Cinta  (in very sad mood, knowing the females become the object of lust, not love)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 1:26am

Wasallamualaikum all,

In this holy Ramadhan, the police kidnapped my muslim brothers due to their understanding of Jihad. As I had shared to this forum that my muslim brothers accepted & implemented all sunnah, hadists & ayats without any filter and adjustment. They implemeted it as they are in the Prophet & Khalifah time. Basically they think that all non muslims are Allah's enemies and they are free to "treat" the kafirun people. Also they think all kafirun females are their right possession.

I'm speechless, I don't know whether I'm wrong or actually my muslim brothers are the true muslims.
 
Regards,
Cinta 
 
 
   


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum all,
 
Responding to my sister Aviatrix (sorry in advance for the 'hard' respond)
 
Let me be clear: there are no ayat or ahadith which allow muslim men to attack and rape women. Not from Khaybar or any other time. Not women who are among believers or disbelievers. Period. Your brothers are wrong if they say otherwise, it's that simple.

Yes, it is your opinion. But you can read these ayats & hadists which my muslim brothers believe 100% on them :

a) Sahih Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459 (about Al Azl / coptus interreptus with the female kafiruns)
 
b) Hadis Abu Dawud (2150) (having sex in front of the female kafiruns' husbands)
 
c) Ayat in Quran 4:24
 
Moreover, they believe the ayats & hadists are still valid until now and have to be "implemented" precisely 100%. Reducing the meaning of the hadists & ayats are forbidden by them. They said the ayats & hadists are very clear and it is commands to the true muslim, to declare war & spread terror to the kafiruns, and also to show the their true love (true lust) to the kafirun females.
 
Sis Aviatrix comment:
Mariah was not a servant of Hafsah, but a wife of the Prophet (s)!
There is no evidence that our Prophet married with Mariah. Mariah was not officially Prophet's wife. In hadists, she was recognised as one of our Prophet's sex slaves. Moreover, Mariah had sex with our Prophet before married (sex before married). (*so tragic, my muslim brothers follow it by having sex with their female servants without any guilty).
 
Sis Aviatrix comment:
You cannot just "re-interpret" the word of God and His messenger to make the religion the way you want. Understand it the way it has classically been interpreted, and you will see how what I have explained to you here is the correct and valid interpretation. And how the twisted actions of your muslim brothers are a mockery of Islam.
I agree with you Sis. But my brothers do not interpret the ayats & hadists. They just follow exactly 100% the ayats & hadists. 
 
Btw, should I tell my muslim brothers to "think & filter" the ayats & hadists again??? I will be stoned by them if I said so.
 
Regards,
Cinta


Sorry, I took a break from the forum for a while. Let me go ahead and respond to your allegations, yet again, for the benefit of the forum.

It was not my opinion when I declared there to be no ayat or ahadith permitting rape. It was a fact. Let's look at what you are presenting as counter evidence.

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:

I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

This is the hadith you mentioned in point a. There is nothing in this hadith about rape. Nothing at all. It's talking about "coitus interruptus." Today we call that "pulling out." The men were doing it to prevent impregnating women they weren't married to. As has already been established, intercourse was permissible in some cases with women who were captives. Rape, however, as you allege, is not what is permitted.

Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers.  So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150)

About the second hadith you mentioned, honestly I couldn't find a translation of it in regular sources, so I had to utilize a non-Muslim source. I'm kind of sketchy about that, but since the hadith still fails to validate your argument, I'll post it here as I found it on a non-Muslim anti-islam site.

And just like before, the hadith doesn't say anything about rape. Having intercourse isn't necessarily rape.

And now we can easily transition to discuss the ayah.

Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All­Knowing, All­Wise. 4:24

Which also does not mention rape! So as I said, no ayah or hadith permitting rape. All these talk about something else altogether which is intercourse being permissible with captive women. Now if you have a problem with, that, why don't you say so, instead of just ranting about rape and adultery? This case is neither--in fact it's a special situation that no longer exists because the institution of slavery no longer exists, alhamdulillah. The ahadith and the ayat are valid and will continue to be, they are a part of the deen, they simply do not apply to modern day situations because they talk about a very specific institution which as I said, no longer exists. And rape is still not allowed. 



My second point was about Hafsah. I personally don't know of any authentic evidence that Mariah was actually the wife of the Prophet (saws). She was sent to him from Egypt as a gift, which would make her a captive under his authority, and he was responsible for taking care of her. And intercourse was permissible with her, also. However, many scholars do consider her to be an actual wife of the Prophet (saws) and she is included among the Mothers of the Believers.

What is absolutely incorrect, on the other hand, is your persistent claim that she, Mariah, was Hafsa's servant. That is wholly inaccurate.



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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I was sad that my muslim brothers did not want to hear me that their actions were not permitted by Allah. They challenged me whether there is ayat, hadist or sunnah which order them to stop attacking and raping the kafirun females.
 
About the raping kafirun females, they said it is the kafirun's fault, why they do not want to cover their bodies with hijab, jilbab or burkah. And why they do not want to confess that Allah is the only God and our Prophet is the messenger of Allah.
 
So they said the kafirun females are halal to be raped. They refer it to the Khaibar war and other wars in our Prophet & Kalifahs' time. They said the kafirun females are the "right possesion" for the muslim brothers. Basically they just follow 100% what our Prophet ordered and what muslim soldiers did to kafirun girls. They do not want to argue or filter or adjust the ayats, hadists & sunnahs. They said it is final and still valid in our time.
 
So what should I do? Can I change their "pure" actions????
 
Regards,
Cinta  (in very sad mood, knowing the females become the object of lust, not love)


I've already explained all these things to you, and why your "brothers" are wrong.

But I have a question for you, something to think about.

If those men you call your "brothers" say that it's "halal" to rape non-Muslim women because they don't cover, then is it "halal" for them to rape Muslim women who also don't cover? There are many women who don't wear a headscarf, or they wear tight clothes, for example.

Also, if non-Muslim women were covering, if they did wear a headscarf or even a burka, would they still consider it "halal" to rape them?

You see, non-Muslim women are not the possession of anyone, certainly not of random hooligans like your "brothers." When the Qur'an refers to "what your right hands possess," it's talking about women who were taken captive in war. So it doesn't apply to any women today.

Now, you're also providing a few different bizarre "rationalizations" for this rape. First saying it's because the women aren't Muslims, then because they don't cover, then because of Khaybar (which I explained before is not a situation which makes rape permissible), then saying that it's in Shari'ah (which it's not), and then saying that Shari'ah is still valid today (which it is.)

Part of Shari'ah is that a rapist (the man) can be punished equivalent to whether he committed adultery or fornication. That he will have to pay a mahr to the woman he raped. That he will likely be exiled from the place where he lives. That is Shari'ah. Your "brothers" can't pick and choose what they want to follow in Islam.

If you want to change them, try teaching them Islam for a change instead of trying to convince people here that Islam is the problem. Try directing them to actual scholars instead of the kind of morons who think that rape has or ever had a place in Islam.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum all,

In this holy Ramadhan, the police kidnapped my muslim brothers due to their understanding of Jihad. As I had shared to this forum that my muslim brothers accepted & implemented all sunnah, hadists & ayats without any filter and adjustment. They implemeted it as they are in the Prophet & Khalifah time. Basically they think that all non muslims are Allah's enemies and they are free to "treat" the kafirun people. Also they think all kafirun females are their right possession.

I'm speechless, I don't know whether I'm wrong or actually my muslim brothers are the true muslims.
 
Regards,
Cinta


The police kidnapped your brothers? Don't you mean the police arrested them?

We all on this forum know that your "brothers" did not accept and implement the Sunnah, they did not even understand the ahadith and ayat. In fact, I'm questioning whether they or even you have ever actually read the Qur'an. This is the month of the Qur'an--read it.

Maybe while your brothers are in jail they can do the same. And frankly, if your brothers think they can rape people without consequence, I find there no safer place for them to be than in jail.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 4:09am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
What Aviatrix explained to me is exactly what my brothers (from different mothers) told me. But the difference is my brothers believe that the condition & situation now are the same as those in the Prophet & Kalifahs' time.
 
They related Khaibar as the kafirun places/ premises and the jewish females as the kafirun females. After they attacked the kafirun places, they took the kafirun females as their captives. And so tragic, they did al azl / coptus interreptus / sex with the captives.
 
Much tragic that they used the ayats & hadists as their references for doing those nasty things.
 
I have been trying to persuade them to stop but they blamed me & called me undevoted, not a true muslimah & hypocrite.
 
I do not know why when I defend the female rights (regardless of her religion), they always called me hypocrite. Should I support them to do such a nasty thing, to be recognised as a true muslimah?
 
They called their nasty actions as sunnah and it is halal. But I said it is haram and considered as rape / adultery. So which one is right? My muslim brothers or ???
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta.
 
 
 
 
 
   


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 4:21am
 
".... the true definition of Adultery become ambigious when they hide behind Ayats & Hadists."
 
                                                -Siti Fatimah on the tv interview 31/08/2009
                              


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Aviatrix
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum all,
 
What Aviatrix explained to me is exactly what my brothers (from different mothers) told me. But the difference is my brothers believe that the condition & situation now are the same as those in the Prophet & Kalifahs' time.
 
They related Khaibar as the kafirun places/ premises and the jewish females as the kafirun females. After they attacked the kafirun places, they took the kafirun females as their captives. And so tragic, they did al azl / coptus interreptus / sex with the captives.
 
Much tragic that they used the ayats & hadists as their references for doing those nasty things.
 
I have been trying to persuade them to stop but they blamed me & called me undevoted, not a true muslimah & hypocrite.
 
I do not know why when I defend the female rights (regardless of her religion), they always called me hypocrite. Should I support them to do such a nasty thing, to be recognised as a true muslimah?
 
They called their nasty actions as sunnah and it is halal. But I said it is haram and considered as rape / adultery. So which one is right? My muslim brothers or ???
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta.


What I explained is in fact quite different than what your "brothers" have been telling you.

They say rape is okay in Islam, and I've been saying it's not now, nor has it ever been.


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http://ibnatalhidayah.blogspot.com - - Amy's Blog


Posted By: Yusuf Hamza
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 1:51am
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

Salaam. Stop trying to follow the "Muslim Brothers" and follow Rasulullah (SAAWS). -Yusuf

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http://www.themonotheist.blogspot.com


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 1:17am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
So what my brothers did to the kafirun girls cannot be categorised as rape?
 
What do we call the "action" did by our muslim soldiers to jewish females in Khaibar, is it rape?
 
I'm shocked when Aviatrix wrote that having intercourse isn't necessarily rape. Do you mean that having intercourse with the captives in front of their husbands is not rape??? So what you call it then???
 
Btw, I bought & read the hadist Abu Dawud when I was in Riyadh. So I believe the hadist is sahih. Otherwise, the hadist cannot be distributed in Saudi Arabia.
 
Concerning the captives, believe me... it is still exist. Please read the news from 3rd countries (incl. Somalia, Kenya, Iraq, Yaman, my country). See what happen to the female captives.
 
Aviatrix wrote :
"...so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed."
 
Yes, I had seen the implementation of this ayat when some middle east men had "fun" with some Indonesian village girls for some weeks & months and then "pay" them with Mahr.
 
I as a female (regardless of my Islam) can feel, see and experience the implementation of the ayat & hadist which I believe it is unfair and only see from the male perspective & for the benefits of the men.  
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta Nabilah
 
 
 
  
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Yusuf Hamza
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 2:59am
Bismillah. Salaam.

You give off the impression that Islam is somehow only difficult for a woman yet easy for a man. I will be the first to agree that a believing woman certainly has more fitna in Islam than a man. No doubt about it.

I am a man who accepted Islam a year ago. Before that, I rarely had any companionship due to my former Christian faith. I have never beaten, raped, or abused a woman ever in my life. My first girlfriend was at 21. Didn't date before then. Majority of my adult life was spent in study, seclusion, melancholy, and quiet contemplation. To date, I haven't been with a woman in five years. Before that, three years. I would like to say that I have obstained from dating and sexual relations due to my religious beliefs but the truth is that I am not the paradigm for being anything more than your average loner with streaks of both kindness and rebellion against social norms. Being a good man doesn't necessarily mean squat to most people but I pray that my efforts at being a good Muslim counts with Allah enough that I am accepted into Janna and saved from the Hell-fire. Still, Islam has reconfirmed and reinforced my respect and admiration for women as great thinkers, teachers, and pillars of a moral society, not as sexual objects or breeding factories. This won't guarantee me any physical pleasure or even the companionship of a wife (in fact, it may guarantee me physical isolation, astaghfirullah) yet I understand and respect a woman's right to choose a husband and be treated honorably. I know that actions of violence against women is fundamentally wrong in Islam and that protecting and caring for them should always be the priority whether they are Muslim or not.

Best regards, Yusuf


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http://www.themonotheist.blogspot.com


Posted By: 4everHopeful
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

 
So what should I do? Can I change their "pure" actions????

 


Salaam,

From reading your posts, and 'listening' to you repeatedly say how these "brothers" do not wish to listen, then I'd have to say there is not much more for you to do is there? Maybe when you put your head down into sujood in every prayer, you should beseech Allah to guide these men to the STRAIGHT path, and not the path that they are taking.

You're questions have already been answered mashaAllah very well, regarding adultery/rape etc... I honestly don't know what else you are looking for :)

All the best.


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Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 17 September 2009 at 8:19am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I do not know why Allah allowed our muslim soldiers to rape the jewish females in Khaibar war & much tragic they raped them in front of the husbands. And so sad it was followed by my muslim brothers.
 
The status as "captives" is only the justification for doing the evil things to the kafirun females. When my muslim brothers attacted the kafirun properties, they also claimed that the kafirun females as the captives and it is halal to have sex with them. For me, I call the action as rape. But my muslim brothers and some people in this forum call it halal since it was stated in the Ayats & hadists.
 
Regardless of my Islam, I still have heart to hear the tears of the females (whether they are kafirun or muslimah). I can see the sad faces of little girls who lost their childhood because they have to marry with older males. For the males, they said it is sunnah. 
 
I can see the tears of the wife who has to accept the decision of her husband to have more wives. I can understand that it is all about lust & sex, not love.
 
I do not know how to persuade my muslim brothers that they have to be wiser if they want to follow the ayats, hadists & sunnah. If not, they will be syaitans (satans) in the human bodies. They can kill, they can rape, they can do bad things to mankinds.
 
I wish this Ramadhan will enlight our path to Allah the Mighty God.
Allah hu Akbar.
 
Regards,
Cinta Nabillah.
 
 
 
 
  


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 17 September 2009 at 6:47pm
No one here is condoning rape.  You fail to understand that.  No one here has said it is halal or that it is sunnah or in hadith.
 
Also, Allah doesn't "allow" anything.  We all were given the freedom to choose how we act.  Some choose to act like animals, they will answer to that when that time comes.


Posted By: cathysnchz
Date Posted: 24 September 2009 at 4:15pm

Read The light sura of the quran it speaks of adultery and the punishment if you are a victim.



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Islam is the truth!


Posted By: ishammad
Date Posted: 24 September 2009 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

 
I believe Islam is given by Allah to bring human beings to the correct way.
But I cannot understand why Allah allowed Muhammad to follow the wrong way.
 
Instead of showing the correct way, Prophet Muhammad followed the wrong way (lie to his wife and then had sex with Mariah). I believe that Prophet Moses had delivered the clear message from Allah that we shall not conduct adultery. But why Muhammad still did it???
 
And again, why Muhammad allowed his soldiers to rape jewish females in the Khaibar war??? Why they did such an immoral action???
 
I truly sad knowing these immoral stories and very very sad knowing that it was done by my lovely Prophet. Please... please help me.
 
Thanks & regards,
Cinta
 
  

Shut your mouth. regardless of who you really are. and how you call youself.

No Muslim on the face of this earth would use the words Mohammad lied and committeed adultry. again shut your mouth.

if you do not understand something attributed to the prophet, then ask a question without including your dirty words.

Mohammad is the example for mankind to follow.

you can say "Did Mohammad have a relation with his slave girl".

 
Mohmmad didnt lie nor He commited adultry, not even before Islam.
when that was the norm in the society.
 
What you said remind me of what people attributed to the prophets in the Bible, that they committed incest and other terrible things said about the prophets of God.   

 

 



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Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182


Posted By: ishammad
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 6:19pm
But some people brought a prostitute and told her to say that prophet that Moses had an affair with her. didnt they?
 
Here are two short stories in response to saying Mohammad lied.
 
Once the prophet was passing by a woman calling her child and saying "come and take". The prophet said what is it you wanted to give the child, she said a candy (or may be a date) then he said, had you not given him, it would have been recorded a lie on you (in your record of deeds)
 
Once one of those scholars collecting Hadith had to travel a long distance to meet a person who memorised one hadith, and upon reaching the scholar found the man carrying a vessel in order to let his horse come near, and when the scholar found that the vessel was actually empty, he return without talking to the man, because he lied at the horse.
 
I recall these two stories, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon the Seal of the Prophets. and upon all of His prophets and messengers.
 
 


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Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 05 October 2009 at 4:44am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I can see the dualism in determining whether it is adultery (zinah) or not.
 
Ok let us read these cases :
 
Case A
A group of american soldiers just attacked a muslim village in Afghanistan. The soldiers captured the male and female captives. At night, the soldiers wanted to have sex with the female captives and then they asked the commander. The commander then gave permission to the soldiers to have sex/ al azl/ coptus interreptus with the captives. Furthermore the soldiers had this "activity" in front of the husbands.
 
Months after this tragedy, the Human Rights Organization found the victims and then reported this case to the UN. The commander and the soldiers then were found guilty and sentenced to jail.
 
Case B
A group of religious soldiers attacked a jewish village in Arabia Peninsula.
The soldiers captured the male and female captives.  At night, the soldiers wanted to have sex with the female captives and then they asked their religion leader. The leader gave permission to the soldiers to have sex/ al azl/ ciptus interreptus with the captives. Furthermore the soldiers had this activity in front of the husbands.
 
Centuries after this tragedy, my muslim brothers found this sunnah and then followed it. Up to now they are still free, because they use this sunnah and follow the ayat. They do not think that it is wrong because they believe that it is order from Allah SWT.
 
In Case A, everybody will agree that it is wrong.
BUT in Case B, no single muslim or muslimah have guts to say that it is wrong.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta Nabillah
(a muslimah who speak with her heart)
 
 
 
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 05 October 2009 at 10:26pm

I'm not seeing where anyone said it sn't wrong.  I think we've all said that it IS wrong.  I think you aren't understanding that.  In regards to this latest post, I'll say it straight up...it's wrong in both cases.  You say it is sunnah, I don't see the citation.  Also, if it doesn't line up with qur'an, it's wrong.



Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 08 October 2009 at 11:26pm
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
So which one is wrong?
 
To have sex / al azl/ coptus interreptus with the "right hand possesion" (captives) <--- which I believe it is wrong BUT my muslim brothers said it is halal
 
OR
 
It is all depend on who the doer & who the victim???
If the doers are my muslim brothers & the victims are kafirun females, then it is halal. 
 
BUT if the doers are kafirun soldiers & the victims are sister muslimahs, then it is wrong???
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta Nabillah
 
 


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Cyra
Date Posted: 09 October 2009 at 9:43am
I believe in regards to the 2 cases you presented as A and B, I answered.   In either case, I have not made distinction between muslim and non-muslim, rape is wrong no matter how you are looking at it.


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 14 October 2009 at 7:07am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I read all the posts carefully and fully understand the explaination given by forum members. I thank to all of the members who postively or negatively respond to my question/ curiousity.
 
I am in dillemma in dealing with the adultery things. I face the reality that my own muslim brothers (from different mothers) had committed "actions" which I believe can be categorised as RAPE & ADULTERY. My muslim brothers showed me the ayats & hadists and gave justification that what they did to kafirun females were supported by Allah SWT and it was also done by our Prophet and his soldiers when they attacked Khaibar. They challenged me to show them the ayats/ hadists, whether Allah SWT prevent them to intercourse/  coptus interreptus/ al azl (in direct word : RAPE) the right hand possession (slaves & captives).
 
I cannot find the ayats & hadists which state that the muslim brothers must not RAPE the right hand possession, furthermore the muslim brothers are welcome to RAPE the right hand possession without doing coptus interreptus (put the sperm outside).
 
In modern time, my muslim brothers attacked the kafirun and RAPE the kafirun females. And they said it as sunnah, ayat and permitted by Allah SWT. If the "RAPE" is halal, so what the right definition of adultery???
 
Is it something wrong with the ayat??? Or satan/ syaitan deceived the Prophet to tell this ayat? Or the ayat is the satanic verses???
 
I do not see any positive side of the ayat, on the other hand the ayat brings discrimination and violation against female. The ayat is for the benefit of lustful males or soldiers whom far from home and need some "entertainment" from the female victims.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta Nabillah
 
   
     
 
   


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: cinta_nabillah
Date Posted: 02 November 2009 at 6:54am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I read all the posts carefully and fully understand the explaination given by forum members. I thank to all of the members who postively or negatively respond to my question/ curiousity.
 
I am in dillemma in dealing with the adultery things. I face the reality that my own muslim brothers (from different mothers) had committed "actions" which I believe can be categorised as RAPE & ADULTERY. My muslim brothers showed me the ayats & hadists and gave justification that what they did to kafirun females were supported by Allah SWT and it was also done by our Prophet and his soldiers when they attacked Khaibar. They challenged me to show them the ayats/ hadists, whether Allah SWT prevent them to intercourse/  coptus interreptus/ al azl (in direct word : RAPE) the right hand possession (slaves & captives).
 
I cannot find the ayats & hadists which state that the muslim brothers must not RAPE the right hand possession, furthermore the muslim brothers are welcome to RAPE the right hand possession without doing coptus interreptus (put the sperm outside).
 
In modern time, my muslim brothers attacked the kafirun and RAPE the kafirun females. And they said it as sunnah, ayat and permitted by Allah SWT. If the "RAPE" is halal, so what the right definition of adultery???
 
Is it something wrong with the ayat??? Or satan/ syaitan deceived the Prophet to tell this ayat? Or the ayat is the satanic verses???
 
I do not see any positive side of the ayat, on the other hand the ayat brings discrimination and violation against female. The ayat is for the benefit of lustful males or soldiers whom far from home and need some "entertainment" from the female victims.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta Nabillah


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Feminist in Islam


Posted By: Deserves2Die
Date Posted: 02 November 2009 at 8:53am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I read all the posts carefully and fully understand the explaination given by forum members. I thank to all of the members who postively or negatively respond to my question/ curiousity.
 
I am in dillemma in dealing with the adultery things. I face the reality that my own muslim brothers (from different mothers) had committed "actions" which I believe can be categorised as RAPE & ADULTERY. My muslim brothers showed me the ayats & hadists and gave justification that what they did to kafirun females were supported by Allah SWT and it was also done by our Prophet and his soldiers when they attacked Khaibar. They challenged me to show them the ayats/ hadists, whether Allah SWT prevent them to intercourse/  coptus interreptus/ al azl (in direct word : RAPE) the right hand possession (slaves & captives).
 
I cannot find the ayats & hadists which state that the muslim brothers must not RAPE the right hand possession, furthermore the muslim brothers are welcome to RAPE the right hand possession without doing coptus interreptus (put the sperm outside).
 
In modern time, my muslim brothers attacked the kafirun and RAPE the kafirun females. And they said it as sunnah, ayat and permitted by Allah SWT. If the "RAPE" is halal, so what the right definition of adultery???
 
Is it something wrong with the ayat??? Or satan/ syaitan deceived the Prophet to tell this ayat? Or the ayat is the satanic verses???
 
I do not see any positive side of the ayat, on the other hand the ayat brings discrimination and violation against female. The ayat is for the benefit of lustful males or soldiers whom far from home and need some "entertainment" from the female victims.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Cinta Nabillah
 
 
Admins of WhyIslam! You people have given her enough air to breath. Hats off to your "Tolerance". Guys, I was banned from various Christian forums (especially Catholic) just because of stating that "I REJECT TRINITY". You should stop her by now, it's enough all ready. She is a Trained Missionary don't you guys see?
 
I can list a thousand things, these so called "maids" commit here in KSA. But I have a great respect for my indonesian brothers, therefore I leave it.
 
For the knowledge of others, We here in Saudi Arabia DONOT consider our servants as "Our right hand possess", it is ILLEGAL here Islamically. It is ILLEGAL/HARAM to commit adultery with your indonesian woman servant. Instead We are taught to give them respect and the same food we eat. There are black sheeps in every community, we have also, but it doesnot and should not be considered as our Religious excuse or Culture.
 
One of my Uncle, by the name of Yahya Al-Badr, May Allah bless his soul, liked his Indonesian house maid and He, Married her! His Forth marriage, and He has a SON MashAllah. After his death, EQUALLY property was distributed between the 4 Wives, 2 years ago.
 

004.025 وَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنْكُمْ طَوْلا أَنْ يَنْكِحَ الْمُحْصَنَاتِ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ فَمِنْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ مِنْ فَتَيَاتِكُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِإِيمَانِكُمْ بَعْضُكُمْ مِنْ بَعْضٍ فَانْكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذْنِ أَهْلِهِنَّ وَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ مُحْصَنَاتٍ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحَاتٍ وَلا مُتَّخِذَاتِ أَخْدَانٍ فَإِذَا أُحْصِنَّ فَإِنْ أَتَيْنَ بِفَاحِشَةٍ فَعَلَيْهِنَّ نِصْفُ مَا عَلَى الْمُحْصَنَاتِ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ ذَلِكَ لِمَنْ خَشِيَ الْعَنَتَ مِنْكُمْ وَأَنْ تَصْبِرُوا خَيْرٌ لَكُمْ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ
 
And Whoso is not able to afford to marry free believing women, let them marry from the believing MAIDS whom your right hand possess. Allah knowth best (concerning) your faith. Ye (proceed) one from another, so MARRY them by permission of their folks and give unto them their portions in kidness, they being honestm not debauched nor of loose conduct. And if when they arfe honorably married they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women * in that case). This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you. Allah is forgiving Merciful. (The Holy Qur'an 4:25)
 

024.033 وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّى يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا وَآتُوهُمْ مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ وَلا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَمَنْ يُكْرِهُّنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ
 

024.033 Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves  out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
 
(The poor unfortunate girls, who are victims of such a negurious trade will yet find mercy from Allah)
 
Al-Qur'an, 024.033 (An-Noor [The Light])
 

 

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: "Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity). (24:33)" (Translation of Sunan Abu Dawud, Divorce (Kitab Al-Talaq), Book 12, Number 2304)" 

 

Mariya Qibtiyaa (aka Ansana) is known to us the "MOTHER OF BELIEVERS" and a WIFE of the Prophet and the MOTHER of his Son Ibraheem (May ALLAH be pleased with them). Those who insist that there was no "Marriage feast", The misconception is deu to the Non-Islamic sources where she is known as "MARIYA the SLAVE GIRL". Hafsa (May ALLAH be please with her) was angry because Prophet Muhamamd pbuh used her apartment on her day. After Hafsa's complain Prophet forbid her unto him So Allah revealed Sura Tehreem 66:1-5) and Mariyah was freed on the birth of his Son by the Lips of the Prophet PBUH, naturally She became his Wife.
 
 
 
Also, the Prophet pbuh allowed his Men to "RAPE" women in Khaibar is also one of the biggest Lie atributed to him, A man of such a caliber who didn't allow his Men to cut a "TREE" is accused of allowing his men to rape women infront of their husbands, what irony. She must have been reading the Bible and the Stories of Moses and his men to much.
 
 
End of Talk.
 
 
Close this thread, I request. Otherwise to shutup this clown, I will have to expose the Indonesian female crimes here in KSA, for which she has a very "soft" corner in her heart, which I don't intend to.
 
D2D
 
 
 


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Propagate Islam, atleast Once DAILY


Posted By: Al-Cordoby
Date Posted: 02 November 2009 at 3:13pm
<< She is a Trained Missionary don't you guys see? >>
 
Yes, that is very clear from her first post
 
She asked questions and she received the answers
 
Thread now closed
 
Thanks D2D


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Think Win-Win for a better world for all...

http://cortoby.blogspot.com/ - My Blog
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