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Pope Francis Visists the United Arab Emirates

Printed From: WhyIslam.org
Category: General
Forum Name: InterReligious Dialogue
Forum Discription: Forum for people of various faiths to discuss and inquire about different religions
URL: http://www.whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32802
Printed Date: 19 May 2019 at 11:16am
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Topic: Pope Francis Visists the United Arab Emirates
Posted By: Win-Win
Subject: Pope Francis Visists the United Arab Emirates
Date Posted: 03 February 2019 at 4:10am

Pope Francis will arrive in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) later on Sunday, becoming the first pontiff to visit the Arabian peninsula.

The Pope has been invited by Abu Dhabi's Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan to take part in an interfaith conference.

The landmark trip will also feature a Mass on Tuesday that is expected to draw 120,000 people...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47106204 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47106204





Replies:
Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 04 February 2019 at 3:42am
TV Coverage of the Pope's Arrival to the UAE

Met at the airport by Sheikh Al-Azhar and the UAE Crown Prince
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcl35eFt_40 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcl35eFt_40 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcl35eFt_40

(9 minutes)

Welcome Pope Francis

Global Conference of Human Fraternity launched on Sunday to mark Pope Francis's visit to Abu Dhabi
http://www.thenational.ae/uae/minister-for-tolerance-urges-human-fraternity-at-conference-to-mark-pope-visit-1.821081 -
http://www.thenational.ae/uae/minister-for-tolerance-urges-human-fraternity-at-conference-to-mark-pope-visit-1.821081 - https://www.thenational.ae/uae/minister-for-tolerance-urges-human-fraternity-at-conference-to-mark-pope-visit-1.821081




Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 06 February 2019 at 3:46am
Pope and grand imam sign historic pledge of fraternity in UAE

The pope and the grand imam of al-Azhar have signed a historic declaration of fraternity, calling for peace between nations, religions and races, in front of a global audience of religious leaders from Christianity, https://www.theguardian.com/world/islam - Islam , Judaism and other faiths.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/pope-francis - Pope Francis , the leader of the world’s Catholics, and Sheikh Ahmed al-Tayeb, the head of Sunni Islam’s most prestigious seat of learning, arrived at the ceremony in Abu Dhabi hand-in-hand in a symbol of interfaith brotherhood.

The document pledges that al-Azhar and the Vatican will work together to fight extremism. Claiming to be in the name of “all victims of wars, persecution and injustice”, it warns against a “third world war being fought piecemeal”...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/04/pope-and-grand-imam-sign-historic-pledge-of-fraternity-in-uae - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/04/pope-and-grand-imam-sign-historic-pledge-of-fraternity-in-uae




Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 16 February 2019 at 8:20am
It needs to be said that many Catholics find this Pope teaches heresy within this declaration, a direct contradiction against the 1st Commandment..

Indeed I'm surprised the Grand Imam countersigned it as i believe it would be promoting an understand which should i'd have thought be understood as shirk.   

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 17 February 2019 at 2:56am
Originally posted by Damo808

It needs to be said that many Catholics find this Pope teaches heresy within this declaration, a direct contradiction against the 1st Commandment..


Would you say that is a majority opinion among Catholics today?



Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 17 February 2019 at 8:38am
Originally posted by Win-Win


Originally posted by Damo808

It needs to be said that many Catholics find this Pope teaches heresy within this declaration, a direct contradiction against the 1st Commandment..
Would you say that is a majority opinion among Catholics today?


I could not say. How many Catholics in the world who could be regarded as informed today on church matters in general I fear is minimal, and as such a major part of the problem.

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 18 February 2019 at 2:30am
One of the things I liked was the short video message the Pope sent the people of the UAE the night before he left Rome to Abu Dhabi

In concluding his video he said (Pray for me)

And I did pray for it to be a good trip and that God guides him to His Straight Path.

Ameen



Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 19 February 2019 at 5:51pm
Al.. do you believe God wills plurality in religion for man ?

Not a loaded question btw.



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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 20 February 2019 at 2:46am
Originally posted by Damo808

Al.. do you believe God wills plurality in religion for man ?



If you mean that man would have more than one religion, then the answer is no, because God commanded all His prophets to convey the same message:

He is One God, we should worship Him alone and to Him we will one day return

So the core teachings of faith are the same for the three Abrahamic religions

It's the Divine Law which evolved from Judaism to Christianity to Islam



Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 21 February 2019 at 5:06am
Originally posted by Win-Win

If you mean that man would have more than one religion, then the answer is no, because God commanded all His prophets to convey the same message:

He is One God, we should worship Him alone and to Him we will one day return

So the core teachings of faith are the same for the three Abrahamic religions

It's the Divine Law which evolved from Judaism to Christianity to Islam




So therefore i believe both you as a Muslim and me as a Catholic should have concerns with a document signed by your most revered scholars and my Pope which declares " “diversity of religions” is “willed by God.”

I'm sure this contradicts much of Islamic teaching and is indeed a rejection of the 1st Commandment.

Many conservative Catholics consider Pope Francis to be
at minimum sowing confusion, and at worst consider him an imposter and heretic.

Here is the statement in full which is considered, lets say very problematic within the document :

“Freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action. The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings. This divine wisdom is the source from which the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to be different derives. Therefore, the fact that people are forced to adhere to a certain religion or culture must be rejected, as too the imposition of a cultural way of life that others do not accept.”

Many Catholic have jumped to 'clarify' the Pope's position here in being that God has 'permissive' will and 'Paternal' will (i think its paternal). The former being that which is allowed through freewill, i.e one can kill, or believe in Satan, but will not lead one towards salvation. The later 'will' which is concerned with what God wills through ones freewill that which leads one to God and their eternal salvation. but the Spanish translation which is the Popes native language does not allow for it to be interpreted as to meaning permissive will but paternal will.

I would go a step further in that pluralism of sex also leaves the door open to ambiguity in todays hypertense debate around gender indentity. The Pope has been seen in public with a blasphemous rainbow coulered rubber crucifix adorned around his neck, an obvious nod to the LBGT community shown here:
   https://aleteia.org/2018/10/19/why-is-pope-francis-wearing-a-rainbow-hued-cross/   


The whole thing spells to me the heralding of one world religion on an incremental level.

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 21 February 2019 at 7:08am
But freedom of faith is a basic human right, Damo

Do you disagree with that?



Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 21 February 2019 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Win-Win

But freedom of faith is a basic human right, Damo
Do you disagree with that?




Fundamentally yes through God's 'permissive' will. But the statement asserts that God willed via his 'paternal' will the creation of multiple religions rather than via His permissive will, hence the falsehood. God does NOT favour the creation of Buddhism for example but you could say He tolerates it i.e is permissive of it . Do you understand my point ?
     

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 22 February 2019 at 3:04am
Originally posted by Damo808


Here is the statement in full which is considered, lets say very problematic within the document :

“Freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action. The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings. This divine wisdom is the source from which the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to be different derives. Therefore, the fact that people are forced to adhere to a certain religion or culture must be rejected, as too the imposition of a cultural way of life that others do not accept.” ...

The whole thing spells to me the heralding of one world religion on an incremental level.


From a Muslim point of view, I don't see a problem in this quote you gave from the document, Damo, nor does it lead to one world religion.

God tells us very clearly in the Qur'an that people are free to believe and they are also free to disbelieve.

You can't force anyone to believe in God if they are not convinced, can you?



Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 22 February 2019 at 3:45am
So you beleive that Allah brought about by His Divine wisdom Buddhism and saw that it was good and non concequencial to the soul in the hereafter ?



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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5


Posted By: Win-Win
Date Posted: 22 February 2019 at 4:20am
Originally posted by Damo808

So you beleive that Allah brought about by His Divine wisdom Buddhism and saw that it was good and non concequencial to the soul in the hereafter ?



No, of course not.

But if someone is convinced that Buddhism is the truth, it's this person's right to follow that path.

As a Muslim I disagree with that belief, but respect his free choice.

Where do you see a problem?



Posted By: Damo808
Date Posted: 22 February 2019 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Win-Win

No, of course not.

But if someone is convinced that Buddhism is the truth, it's this person's right to follow that path.

As a Muslim I disagree with that belief, but respect his free choice.

Where do you see a problem?


The above I don't have a problem with either because that falls under God's 'permissive' will, in that He doesn't 'Paternally' will men into Buddhism but permits men to choose their religion and establishment of it in accordance with freewill. . God does not instigate plurality and diversity in religion however, but said statement within the document many conservative Catholics say it clearly infers just that.

Its states plurality and diversity of religion Islam, Christianity Judaism, as well as....Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Shintoism etc etc etc were "willed by God in His wisdom" Not simply permitted, but indeed willed. The statement does NOT go on to qualify that it was by permitted will, but via His Divine Wisdom.

Thats what i have a problem with because its a direct but sleight of hand contradiction of the 1st Commandment

Remember this is same Pope who reportedly stated to a respected journalist that hell doesn't exist. To which the Vatican had to retract.

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out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5



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